From: "E.Pavlov" <epavlov-AT-mail.ru> Subject: Re: HAB: Reasonable Response & Anti-Americanism Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:53:52 +0000 (GMT) [Gary] > Does this mean, then, that you are much less interested in being > effectively persuasive than you are interested in reassuring yourself > about what you believe? You earlier postings have asserted views, but > not argued anything reasonably. [Evgeni] I am sorry if I sound anti-american, I guess that is your understanding of my posts since it is in the subject line. I was trying to say that if I disagree with US foreign policy, this doesn't mean that I am anti-american. No, I am not simply interested in reassuring myself in what I believe. I didn't claim to argue that terrorist attack on US is in any was a justified reaction of those who disapprove American policy in Middle East. [Gary] > How many Albanian casualties justify NATO action against Serbian > fanaticism? [Evgeni] My point was this - in order to pursuade the public to approve the bombings, the numbers were overstated. If NATO wanted to act against "Serbian fanaticism" it did not have to do it, simply act... [Gary] > Like you say: > > well, "it is not the number, I am > > terrible concerned about"... [Evgeni] Note the quotation marks, I believe these were Colin Powell's words related to the number of casualities in Iraq. I cannot support this with > So, might you recognize that you're not too concerned to be clear > about what you want others to understand? > > > > Like I already said, I don't support terrorism, but I also don't > > want to see a new war where > > more innocent people will die in this blind retaliation campaign > -... > > What blind retaliation campaign? The U.S. has taken a law enforcement > attitude toward the Osama bin Laden. No one on this email list, > including Fred, has advocated brute retaliation. For a long time, the > UN has asked the Talibans to turn over Osama bin Laden, in a law > enforcement capacity, and the Talibans refused. > > > there are no evidences of > > bin Laden involvement, ... > > You don't know that. You just don't give credence to U.S assertions > for *years* that there IS compelling evidence. Your kind of attitude > here "argues" for Fred's reaction to your earlier postings. > > > and there probably won't be, because to > > start a war you don't really > > need it ... > > Now, what kind of attitude is this? > > > - simply show NY destruction and then bin Laden in the next > > episode and American > > public will support whatever war US gov. is going to start. > > > The American public would have to be very simple-minded for your > assertion to have credence. Do you think the American public is this > stupid? So, what exactly do you think *Fred*'s problem is? Looks like > you're supporting his level of reaction. > > > > > [Fred] > > > Because I am an American, I am concerned about both the > > possibility of > > > recurrence of terrorist attacks and about the progress of > > retaliation for the > > > WTC attack. > > > > [Evgeni] > > Excuse my analogy, but during the WWII in occupied regions of > > Russia, Germans > > had a law of retaliation > > No, I cannot excuse your analogy. It's irrelevant and insulting. > > >... Why did US choose Afghanistan? > > Because Osama bin Laden is, indisputably, there. > > > What [is the proof] > > that bin Laden is responsible? > > That's a fair question. Are you open to a fair answer? The Talibans > want proof, too. They, too, turn to modern (public, "sunshine") > standards of procedure when it suits them (while turning to their own > secret deliberations when that suits them). > > > Will US fight terrorism in Northern > > Ireland? > > Have you heard of any Irish nationalis bombing Americans? As a matter > of fact, though, the U.S. is largely responsible for mediating > various prospects for peace in Northern Ireland. > > > > Turkey? > > Your point? > > > Chechnya? > > The U.S. protested loudly. What exactly do you want, U.S. > intervention in Russia? > > > > > > [Fred] > > > .... these vicious attacks, especially in Isreal, .... > > > been occuring everywhere: death squads in Latin America, Sri > > Lanka, all over > > > Africa, Northern Ireland, etc. Prosecution has been lax, as if > > these are > > > natural events and nothing can be done. > > > > [Evgeni] > > Why then US did nothing about terrorism until it experienced it? > > The U.S. has been trying to fight terrorism for many years, as a > matter of law enforcement and civil collaboration with other nations. > The U.S. has respected the sovereignty of "harboring" nations, and > this approach is no longer workable. > > > Why [were] > > bombings of US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania not interpreted > > as acts of war? > > Because they were regarded as crimes. > > > Embassies represent the country, why did US only > > retaliated by > > bombing of Afg. and Sudan? > > The U.S. did not bomb these nations; they bombed a pharmaceutical > plant in Sudan and training camps in Afghanistan. You must > distinguish the facts of action from interpretation of action. Osama > bin Laden and his network allegedly operated from the two tiny > locations that were precisely bombed. > > > > I don't oppose the elimination of terrorism, I oppose the massive > > retaliation war that will kill more innocent people and will not be > > effective against terrorists themselves. > > I'm sure Fred is with you on this. > > > So bin Laden will be > > killed, > > so his miliraty group will be destroyed, another one will appear, > > because > > these people have a cause and US attack will not crush them,... > > This is exactly the perspective of the U.S. government. Going after > particular criminals is only part of a long campaign against > organized crime. > > > [...and] only give[s terrorists] another argument for their cause. > I am against throughtless war that will satisfy American public... > > How about thoughtful interventions that will satisfy victims > worldwide and kill the prospect of terrorism becoming biological and > nuclear? > > > Best regards, > > > Gary > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > Donate cash, emergency relief information > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ > > > --- from list habermas-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > --- Приглашаем пообщаться на www.talk.ru --- from list habermas-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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