Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:31:06 -0500
Subject: Re: HAB: Why has Islam failed to modernize?


I've silently endured a lot of trifling hot air since subscribing to this 
list, but this fascist drivel takes the cake.  What is this jackass doing 
here?  Habermas may be basically a liberal, but as a person born in a Nazi 
nation he had to take the indispensable heritage of liberalism seriously 
and build upon it conceptually.  If one rejects this, why engage with 
Habermas at all?   The freedom from feudalism, and later from fascism and 
Stalinism, implies inter alia a liberation from irrational and illegitimate 
authority.  Islam, like Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and other 
malignant religions, is a pox upon humanity, and every bit as imperialistic 
as the imperialist west, as its whole history demonstrates, and there can't 
be any solutions until its force is neutralized along with the other 
malificent forces of the world.  I can't imagine there being any question 
about this at all on this list, unless of course interest in Habermas here 
is just a vacuous intellectual game, which it does seem to be.

At 06:06 AM 03/08/2002 +0000, Ali Rizvi wrote:

>Thomas
>
>Marx once asked similar question and had no answer. He was perplexed by 
>the basence of any indeginous capitlaist movement in Islam. Others are 
>perplexed by the lack of any sucessful reformation movement in Islam and 
>so on. This include your question about modernisation in Islam as well.
>
>Setting aside ambiguties of the concept modernisation (which can at least 
>mean two different things on the face of it), I will just answer your 
>question by asking a further question. Why should Islam necessarily 
>modernise?? Your question presupposes the superior of Western history, 
>especially its history of last four hundered years. But I think there are 
>no rational grounds for presupposing such a superiority.
>
>The Capitalist West (and non West) are so perplexed and threatened by 
>Islam not only because Islam is different (Buddhism is different too but 
>poses not such threat), but because of the immense reservoir of resistence 
>and struggle and its infinite possibilites (potnetiol) for rejunivation, 
>in unseemed and unthought of ways. Islam is problem not because it did not 
>modernise, it is problem because it provides the frame work for 
>resistence. [If Islam was just non modern and nothing else, it would have 
>provided good amunation for Western archives, and museums].
>
>Your comments about identity crisis make me laugh. Belive me there is no 
>such crisis ( there might be other cirses but not identity crisis). Do not 
>try to project your own crisis on others [although there can be such a 
>crisis for second gernation of immigrants in Europe and America]. These 
>comments only show how ignorant you are about your supposed other. The 
>other day I was reading an article in Washington Post and the writer was 
>claiming that most of the Taliban force was constituted by merceneris. 
>There was another article few years back suggesting that they might have 
>gay tendencies! Evidence? She saw them showing affection to each other!! 
>So much so for Western journalism.
>
>Listen, you have all right to oppose ideas, and groups you do not like, 
>even you have right to hate whoever you want, but do not try to deny 
>facts, it will hurt yourself in the end. A friendly advice!
>
>As far as the terms, right wing, fundamentalism etc are concerned they do 
>not mean anything to me, because they are just your cheep tools to 
>demonise the other.
>
>Best regards
>
>ali

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