Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:19:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: HAB: Re: Modernity vs. Premodernity (& auto-pro-anti-hegemonism)


Actually, I consider myself a postmodernist, but I do believe that an
enlightened global postmodernism requires that all parties thoroughly
understand and adapt to modernism before going beyond it, rejecting it,
etc.

Islam as a culture has not met successfully with the pluralism of
modernity (a necessity for global peace). This is similar to the case
of Nazi Germany. The ideology of the Arian Will to Power left no option
but to prove to the world it's superiority. War was a necessity of this
perspective. In the same way, war is a necessity of Islamic
fundamentalism. The war occurring right now is justified on the same
grounds as World War II only that in this case, the anti-pluralist
enemy holds less global power than German Arianism did, so many on the
American and European Left mistakenly sympathize with this kind of
right-wing Islam out of a knee-jerk sensibility that the non-hegemon is
always right.

I rather enjoy the individual freedom, democracy and cultural pluralism
that modernism helped bring about. My main problem with modernism is
the mechanical, positivistic, scientistic outlook that overly represses
forms of perceived 'irrationality' (ie; rock music, dance, death). But
in a healthy society this is just a matter of balancing.

It's "just a big swindle, a nothing" if that is w h a t y o u m a k e o
f i t

It means what we will, and will to see.

--Tom

--- bob scheetz <rscheetz-AT-cboss.com> wrote:
> Tom,
>        perhaps you're investing more in modernity than it's
> worth...in fact
> enron seems rather apt metafor here...underneath all the hype and
> glitz and
> gleaming jewel-case towers (bourgeois liberal ideologies of
> individual
> freedom and democracy and cultural pluralism)...just a big swindle, a
> nothing.
> 
> ...anyway, the case with the palestinians, displaced from their
> homelands,
> is one of a monstrous criminality, ...a simple one of justice -
> restore what
> was stolen, punish the criminals,..., wherever that might lead. 
> There's no
> illusion re power, the bush team and sharon are deaf to claims of
> justice
> and right and law or even simple human compassion; and, of course, 
> are
> possessed of an awesome power of bribing and/or killing; but
> philosophers
> who demur at affirming meaning, howso'er forelorn,  in the dark hour
> of
> nihilism ascendant, lose their right to philosophy, no?
> 
> bob
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Thomas McDonald <mcdonald928-AT-yahoo.com>
> To: <habermas-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:05 PM
> Subject: HAB: Modernity vs. Premodernity (Re: samizdat 2/28)
> 
> 
> > To suggest that "they want another 9-11" is absurd. Please don't
> allow
> > the insanity of the middle-east situaiton to allow you to lose your
> own
> > sanity.
> >
> > I'm not big fan of Israel myself, but how can Israel deal
> 'rationally'
> > with Palistinian forces that can be so extremely irrational in
> their
> > desires/motives? I don't mean this in a derogatory sense towards
> the
> > Palestinian people. But we would have to acknowledge that Islamic
> > religious culture has not adapted to rational, pluralistic
> > modernization in the way that Jewish and Christian cultures have.
> >
> > If Israel were to give in to full demands, pullback of borders,
> etc.
> > What's to say that the cultivated, passionate desires of a
> radically
> > anti-jewish Islamic Palestinian culture will not want more? That
> they
> > won't want to eradicate Israel altogether?
> >
> > What can satisfy a people who's desires are not for modernity?
> >
> > It seems to me the real problem is that this is a clash between
> > modernity and premondernity.
> >
> > We could all use to contemplate the problem this way in a
> non-partisan
> > manner.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > --- bob scheetz <rscheetz-AT-cboss.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bush pronounces the "axis of evil",...Sharon responds to Prince
> > > Abdullah's
> > > conciliatory gesture with the shredded corpses of hundreds of
> > > defenseless
> > > Palestinians,...Ari Fleischer adverts contemptuously on the
> Clinton
> > > era
> > > mid-east initiative. There's no mistaking the Wolfowitz policy
> > > ascendancy,
> > > the US/Israeli intention of escalating war with Islam.  These are
> all
> > > actions manifestly calculated to produce optimal street rage from
> > > Morocco to
> > > Jakarta, raise the popular stature of OBL,... to the end of
> provoking
> > > more
> > > "terrorism", a much needed 'nother casus belli.  Apparently the
> Danny
> > > Pearl
> > > incident was not large enuf, or inconveniently situated, or tied
> to
> > > the
> > > already devastated Taliban, ...; they want another 9-11.
> > > Let us earnestly hope they are frustrated, ...and speak out, that
> > > perhaps
> > > for once this trap should remain un-sprung.
> >
> >
> >
> > ====> > Tom McDonald  CONTACT INFO:
> > WEBSITE:  http://www.ThomasMcDonald.com
> > EMAIL:  mcdonald928-AT-yahoo.com
> > INSTANT MESSENGER:  "omhats" on AOL & MSN, "mcdonald928" on Yahoo
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
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> 
> 
> 
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====Tom McDonald  CONTACT INFO:
WEBSITE:  http://www.ThomasMcDonald.com
EMAIL:  mcdonald928-AT-yahoo.com
INSTANT MESSENGER:  "omhats" on AOL & MSN, "mcdonald928" on Yahoo

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