Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:01:10 -0400
From: David Hawkes <dh05-AT-lehigh.edu>
Subject: Re: HAB: lessons in Power, Sharon's latest production


I, for one, fully support Bob Scheetz's raising of this pertinent topic.  It defies
belief that Monsieur Dumain is incapable of drawing connections between Habermasian
philosophy and the politics of the real world.  So implausible is it that M. Dumain
is genuinely blind to the relevance of Bob's post that we may legitimately wonder
about his motives for attempting to silence debate on this matter.  Dumain is not
usually shy of straying into fields that are deemed "irrelevant" by other List
Members.  How hypocritical it is of him to don the preacher's garb in this
instance--and how interesting is his choice of topics to censor.  Before long the
self-styled "autodidact" will doubtless begin demanding to see Bob's
"qualifications" for commenting on Israel.  For myself, I would like to know what
qualifications Dumain thinks he has to just come on here and tell us what we can
and cannot discuss.

Cheers,

David Hawkes

Ralph Dumain wrote:

> I'm not an academic, and I don't disagree with the concern over Israel's
> atrocities.  However, this is a Habermas list, and the world is full of
> atrocities.  Bob Shitz has acted like a clever little smartass over every
> other issue, including Sept. 11, but all of a sudden he's in deadly earnest
> over this, without his usual intellectual irony.  And he's taking his overt
> political concern to this list without relating it to Habermas's.  So what
> gives?  My issue is the stupidity of the left, and the underlying mentality
> that makes this behavior possible.
>
> BTW, last night I read Habermas' speech on "Faith and Knowledge" on
> Habermas Online, and while it wasn't bad, it was murky and unsatisfactory
> in spots.  I think he gave way too much respect to religion.
>
> At 09:34 AM 07/24/2002 -0300, Raul Rodriguez wrote:
> >For what reason does it serve the philosophy if with her we justify the
> >silence in front of the wrongs of the society?. Will it be that there are
> >intellectuals from "salon" that alone they enjoy traveling the labyrinth
> >of the ideas without giving with an idea that she helps to the humanity's
> >self understanding? Will it be that there are intellectuals that can
> >remain silent the crimes of Israel and USA without having shame of their
> >sought critical postures in the philosophy?
> >  I ask to myself: does what understand for Critical Theory some of these
> > northamerican philosophers?
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ralph Dumain" <rdumain-AT-igc.org>
> >To: <habermas-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:30 AM
> >Subject: Re: HAB: lessons in Power, Sharon's latest production
> >
> >
> >| While I don't necessarily disagree with your political take on the
> >| situation, what business do you think you have raising it here, without
> >| making any connection to the subject matter of this list?  Isn't also
> >| curious that your flippant, ironic, smartass remarks on every other topic
> >| vanish and you are ever so earnest on this one subject alone.  Unless you
> >| are from the Middle East yourself, I have to wonder why this is.  Maybe you
> >| are a crypto-fascist shit yourself.
> >|
> >| At 12:24 AM 07/24/2002 -0400, bob scheetz wrote:
> >| >Like his appearance in force at the Temple Mount to sabotage the
> >| >Clinton-Barak "peace plan," Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's "great
> >| >success" Mon. nite in Gaza City at the hand of a brave young Israeli F-16
> >| >pilot is, if possible, even more stunning as an act of strategic
> >| >provocation.  The choice of weapon, hour, location, was clearly
> >designed for
> >| >maximum effect to  enrage the Arab street and precipitate the US/Israel
> >into
> >| >an heightened and expanded war with Islam.
> >| >
> >| >Sharon & co have every confidence in their death-grip on the US politician
> >| >caste; every confidence  it is incapable of meaningful action (termination
> >| >of the subsidy, withdrawal of weapons licensing) to practice an independant
> >| >policy and dissuade Islam of its complicity.  They know thence that Arab
> >| >rage will recur to America's enemies for support, and will attempt with
> >| >re-doubled fanatic hatred another quantum level of the only measure,
> >| >"terror", available.  Infallibly this will vastly raise the credit of the
> >| >hawks,  Wolfowitz & co,  and finally give them their war with Saddam.
> >| >
> >| >The cunning and conception of Sharon and the Zionists, their single-minded
> >| >pursuit of an ethnically cleansed Greater Israel, imperial hegemon of the
> >| >entire area, is rather breath-taking; but what's more, (and not especially
> >| >regarding Sharon, who manifestly has the stomach) is conceiving how the
> >| >respective peoples, Israelis, Zionists & Americans, could actually support,
> >| >not just so unequal battle/butchery, but for such an unrighteous,
> >| >racist/expansionist, cause.  Probably only an Elie Wiesel could guide us
> >| >thru and reconcile our collective consciences,...so get ready to see a lot
> >| >of him and  epigones.  How wonderful the resiliance and transformations of
> >| >the spirit of nazism.
> >| >
> >| >
> >| >
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> >|
> >|
> >|
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> >
> >
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