Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:12:24 -0400
Subject: Re: HAB: lessons in Power, Sharon's latest production


Well, on reflection I suppose you're right.  Bob's post really didn't have all that
much to do with Habermas after all.  But what really annoyed me is that Dumain, a
man who shows no compunction whatsoever about swerving into the wildest irrelevance
at the slightest provocation, should just come on here and start telling the rest
of us what to do.  What sort of qualifications does he think he has to do that?  In
fact, what are his qualifications to be here in the first place?  I have yet to see
him offer any qualifications whatsoever for being able to discuss Habermas, which
is probably why he prefers to just tell everyone else what to discuss--and I don't
even think he's properly qualified to do that, quite frankly.  Once I see some
qualifications I may take a different view, but for now the matter is settled: no
qualifications, no right to  comment on anything, ever.  Sorry, but that's the way
it has to be.

Cheers,

David Hawkes

Claus Hansen wrote:

> Excuse me for being rather dumb, but I cannot - even with a very good will
> - see how
> Mr. Scheetz's original message is related to the discussion of Habermas'
> thoughts. However,
> I would be very interesed if Mr. Hawkes would give an explication of this
> relation as
> it would prove very valuable in my understanding of Habermas.
> And I must admit that while I sometimes recognize the need for writing in a
> fashion
> one cannot immediately discern the philosophical claims being made I dont
> think this
> list is the forum for such a kind of writing. One of the conditions that
> one has to bear
> in mind when communication is - according to Habermas - to make oneself
> understood.
> Perhaps Mr. Scheetz and Mr. Hawkes could try and bear this in mind in the
> future instead
> of making implicit claims that make it necessary to interpret their posts
> to a unnecessary
> high degree.
>
> Claus
>
> At 20:01 24-07-02, you wrote:
> >I, for one, fully support Bob Scheetz's raising of this pertinent
> >topic.  It defies
> >belief that Monsieur Dumain is incapable of drawing connections between
> >Habermasian
> >philosophy and the politics of the real world.  So implausible is it that
> >M. Dumain
> >is genuinely blind to the relevance of Bob's post that we may legitimately
> >wonder
> >about his motives for attempting to silence debate on this matter.  Dumain
> >is not
> >usually shy of straying into fields that are deemed "irrelevant" by other List
> >Members.  How hypocritical it is of him to don the preacher's garb in this
> >instance--and how interesting is his choice of topics to censor.  Before
> >long the
> >self-styled "autodidact" will doubtless begin demanding to see Bob's
> >"qualifications" for commenting on Israel.  For myself, I would like to
> >know what
> >qualifications Dumain thinks he has to just come on here and tell us what
> >we can
> >and cannot discuss.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >David Hawkes
> >
> >Ralph Dumain wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not an academic, and I don't disagree with the concern over Israel's
> > > atrocities.  However, this is a Habermas list, and the world is full of
> > > atrocities.  Bob Shitz has acted like a clever little smartass over every
> > > other issue, including Sept. 11, but all of a sudden he's in deadly earnest
> > > over this, without his usual intellectual irony.  And he's taking his overt
> > > political concern to this list without relating it to Habermas's.  So what
> > > gives?  My issue is the stupidity of the left, and the underlying mentality
> > > that makes this behavior possible.
> > >
> > > BTW, last night I read Habermas' speech on "Faith and Knowledge" on
> > > Habermas Online, and while it wasn't bad, it was murky and unsatisfactory
> > > in spots.  I think he gave way too much respect to religion.
> > >
> > > At 09:34 AM 07/24/2002 -0300, Raul Rodriguez wrote:
> > > >For what reason does it serve the philosophy if with her we justify the
> > > >silence in front of the wrongs of the society?. Will it be that there are
> > > >intellectuals from "salon" that alone they enjoy traveling the labyrinth
> > > >of the ideas without giving with an idea that she helps to the humanity's
> > > >self understanding? Will it be that there are intellectuals that can
> > > >remain silent the crimes of Israel and USA without having shame of their
> > > >sought critical postures in the philosophy?
> > > >  I ask to myself: does what understand for Critical Theory some of these
> > > > northamerican philosophers?
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Ralph Dumain" <rdumain-AT-igc.org>
> > > >To: <habermas-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:30 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: HAB: lessons in Power, Sharon's latest production
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >| While I don't necessarily disagree with your political take on the
> > > >| situation, what business do you think you have raising it here, without
> > > >| making any connection to the subject matter of this list?  Isn't also
> > > >| curious that your flippant, ironic, smartass remarks on every other
> > topic
> > > >| vanish and you are ever so earnest on this one subject
> > alone.  Unless you
> > > >| are from the Middle East yourself, I have to wonder why this
> > is.  Maybe you
> > > >| are a crypto-fascist shit yourself.
> > > >|
> > > >| At 12:24 AM 07/24/2002 -0400, bob scheetz wrote:
> > > >| >Like his appearance in force at the Temple Mount to sabotage the
> > > >| >Clinton-Barak "peace plan," Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's
> > "great
> > > >| >success" Mon. nite in Gaza City at the hand of a brave young
> > Israeli F-16
> > > >| >pilot is, if possible, even more stunning as an act of strategic
> > > >| >provocation.  The choice of weapon, hour, location, was clearly
> > > >designed for
> > > >| >maximum effect to  enrage the Arab street and precipitate the US/Israel
> > > >into
> > > >| >an heightened and expanded war with Islam.
> > > >| >
> > > >| >Sharon & co have every confidence in their death-grip on the US
> > politician
> > > >| >caste; every confidence  it is incapable of meaningful action
> > (termination
> > > >| >of the subsidy, withdrawal of weapons licensing) to practice an
> > independant
> > > >| >policy and dissuade Islam of its complicity.  They know thence that
> > Arab
> > > >| >rage will recur to America's enemies for support, and will attempt with
> > > >| >re-doubled fanatic hatred another quantum level of the only measure,
> > > >| >"terror", available.  Infallibly this will vastly raise the credit
> > of the
> > > >| >hawks,  Wolfowitz & co,  and finally give them their war with Saddam.
> > > >| >
> > > >| >The cunning and conception of Sharon and the Zionists, their
> > single-minded
> > > >| >pursuit of an ethnically cleansed Greater Israel, imperial hegemon
> > of the
> > > >| >entire area, is rather breath-taking; but what's more, (and not
> > especially
> > > >| >regarding Sharon, who manifestly has the stomach) is conceiving how the
> > > >| >respective peoples, Israelis, Zionists & Americans, could actually
> > support,
> > > >| >not just so unequal battle/butchery, but for such an unrighteous,
> > > >| >racist/expansionist, cause.  Probably only an Elie Wiesel could
> > guide us
> > > >| >thru and reconcile our collective consciences,...so get ready to
> > see a lot
> > > >| >of him and  epigones.  How wonderful the resiliance and
> > transformations of
> > > >| >the spirit of nazism.
> > > >| >
> > > >| >
> > > >| >
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> > > >|
> > > >|
> > > >|
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> > > >
> > > >
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