Subject: [HAB:] Hab and German traditon/Foucault-Sartre [Matt]
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:41:01 +0000


Matt,

1) I totally agree with the following [Again I think to read Habermas from 
*without* the F.S school/ G.Idealism/Lukacs tradition is to under read his 
work. Habermas's methodology is SO hermeneutical... his engagement with 
[his]disciplinary tradition pervades 99% of his work. This then ties into 
notions of learning processes.]. Habermas' use of Analytic philosophy and 
American pragmatism seems to me greatly moulded by and is from within the 
tradition of continental philosophy he is steeped in (this should go without 
saying!). To miss this point is to miss the radicality of Habermas' analysis 
in my opinion. Habermas intimacy with Analytical philosophy and American 
tradition has more to do with his politics than his philosophy. Of course in 
saying above I am not denying continental roots and connections of Anglo 
American traditions but that is a totally different issue.

2) Thanks for the Vogel's reference, seems very relevant to my present 
concerns.

3) Sartre Foucault relation is indeed very deep and essential for 
understanding Foucault (both what he takes from Sartre and what he rejects 
in him). If I understand what you are getting here rightly then following 
quote should be relevant:

"I think that from the theoretical point of view, Sartre avoids the idea of 
the self as something that is given to us, but through the moral notion of 
authenticity, he turns back to the idea of that we have to be ourselves - to 
be truly our true self. I think that the only acceptable practical 
consequences of what Sartre has said is to link this theoretical insight to 
the practice of creativity - and not that of authenticity. From the idea 
that the self is not given to us, I think there is only one practical 
consequences of what Sartre has said is to link his theoretical insight to 
the practical creativity - and not that of authenticity. From the idea that 
the self is not given to us, I think there is only one practical 
consequence: we have to create ourselves as a work of art. In his analyses 
of Baudelaire, Flaubert, and so on, it is interesting to see that Sartre 
refers the work of creation to a certain relation to oneself - the author to 
himself- which has the form of authenticity or inauthenticity. I would like 
to say exactly the contrary: we should not have to refer the creative 
activity of somebody to the kind of relation he has to himself, but should 
relate the kind of relation one has to oneself to a creative activity" 
(Essential works, vol. i. p. 262).

The above formulation should provide in my opinion key to any endeavour to 
understand the relation of Foucault and Sartre. For the background of this 
you might like to have a look at David Macey's highly recommended, The lives 
of Michel Foucault.

best regards
ali
============================================================>1) I agree with you on Heidegger Habermas relation. Interestingly at one 
>point in his twelve lectures on modernity Habermas uses lifeworld almost as 
>synonymous to 'being in the world' (p. 144).

IMO, Habermas's lifeworld is a detranscendental analogue of Heidegger's 
Being.
---------------------------------
>2) I am not so sure about your dichotomous distinction between Habermas' 
>semantics and his pragmatism though.

Fair enough. Ironically, I was also attempting to offer a *pragmatic* 
reading of his semantic theory (slightly different sense of *pragmatic* 
though :-))

>To be frank I do not really know what pragmatism (as against his 
>pragmatics) means in this context.

Neither do several of the contributor's to Aboulafia's collection. See also 
Hans Joas' essay on Habermas's pragmatic claims in the Honneth/Joas 
_Communicative Action_. For what it's worth, Habermas's pragmatism is very 
much a Continental version still showing the influence of German Idealism.
----------------------------
Very fruitful reading IMO:

>3) Having said that I see Habermas' major contribution along the similar 
>line as that of Foucault. His work (like that of Foucault) can be divided 
>into two distinct but mutually complementary tasks. On the hand Habermas 
>aims to overcome the notion of subject that is not situated and located in 
>'this world'. This is the task of detranscendentalisation whereby he 
>develops his critique of the traditional conception of subject. The second 
>task is to put forth a new conception of subjectivity that builds on this 
>'negative critique' of the philosophy of subject. This task is that of 
>developing a positive conception of subjectivity in the wake of the 
>detranscendentalisation achieved through the first task. This second task 
>is related to Habermas positive conception of 'transcendence from within'.

Without wanting to re-ignite old themes I continue to read these themes as 
Habermas's remodeling  of the subject/object dialectic from philosophy of 
consciousness; although the subject/intersubjective/lifeworld process to be 
sure is depicted by Habermas as a learning process.

Again I think to read Habermas from *without* the F.S school/ 
G.Idealism/Lukacs tradition is to under read his work. Habermas's 
methodology is SO hermeneutical... his engagement with [his]disciplinary 
tradition pervades 99% of his work. This then ties into notions of learning 
processes.

I found Steven Vogel's study of the F.S _Against Nature_ to be quite 
brilliant in its explication of the subject/object motif in H. & A. and then 
Habermas's response.
------------------
A quick extraneous ask of you; recently read Marcuse's critique of Sartre. 
Marcuse's main line of critique was that Sartre's subjectivity presupposed a 
type of dangerous atomistic conception of social life. Also critical of 
Sartre's ideas of self-creation via role-playing.

Bells started to ring upstairs. Habermas's critique of Foucault is not too 
far from Marcuse's of Sartre, and very interesting (for me at least) is that 
I finally started to see the Sartre-Foucault connection which I had 
previously overlooked.

Any thoughts, references?

Cheers,

MattP

_________________________________________________________________
Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. 
http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess



     --- from list habermas-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---