Subject: Re: To two Roberts; look out Anne Marie
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 18:22:15 -0400
From: Paul Shane <pshane-AT-ctnet.com>


Note: To the others on this list, I offer my abject apologies. I, like 
some of you, am quite bored with this strand and would like to end it. 
This is my attempt at getting "to the heart of the matter" and getting it 
over with. My special apologies to the Europeans as this is a 
particularly American embarrassment. Thanks for your patience and 
forbearance. 
----------------------------
Well, at this point in the "game," it appears that the Landmark team 
(sponsored by Weiner Erhard Pre-Owned Car Sales) is down two-zip against 
Henry "The Mud Hen" Sholar team. Shane is called in for the assist. He 
steps onto the court. A hush falls over the crowd. The whistle blows and 
the next quarter is off. Shane, taking the ball from the Mud Hen, wastes 
no time and shoots immediately!
----------------------------
Anne Marie Tobias states:
On the contrary, my arrival on
the list is an expression of my committed stand than all people live a 
life
that is joyful, related, and fully self expressed.

Is that right? And the Hunger Project was to eradicate all world hunger 
by 1997. $67 million+ in the Weiner's coffers and there's still an infant 
mortality rate out there. So much for your vaunted "technology." Gee, 
Anne, have you ever stopped to consider that just maybe I don't want you 
in my life with your so-called commitment as it cannot be operationalized 
except in your own fantasy world. You and your kind remind me of Jehovah 
Witnesses or, worse, the U.S. Government as in "Hi! We're from the 
government and we're here to help you." As an aside, and if I may ask, 
are you doing some kind of pet project for *IFLP? If so, that's cool. 
I've a copy of the manual and may even post portions of it for general 
edification. Don't forget to clean up those lavatories after you use them!

(*IFLP stands for "Introduction To The Forum Leaders Program" for those 
of you unwashed heathen not in the know. It's purpose is to teach people 
how to sell the Landmark programs under the guise of "making a 
contribution to others.")

Anne Marie Tobias states:
I've seen thousands of interactions by hundreds of people in the process 
of
the work I've done around Landmark, and there are things I can say, from
first hand experience about the fundamental function, "The Design", of 
Being
Human, which is totally independent of race, culture, education, social
class, or personality.

Yawn. Ho-hum. Afterall, 4 billion Chinese all eat rice and they can't be 
wrong, right? My sister-in-law (true story!) was in the industrial 
lighting business and set up the lights and sound system for the Moonie 
Wedding Ceremony at Madison Square Garden a couple of years ago where the 
good right Rev. Sun-Myung married 12,000 couples. Hey, come to think of 
it, all those lemmings couldn't possibly have made a mistake, right?

Anne Marie Tobias states:
Nor
will I attempt to engage in demonstrations of great learning, stunning
intellect, or for that matter an elegant turn of phrase.

We take that as a given, Ann Marie. No need to state the obvious. When I 
did the Forum, the Leader loudly informed the "masses," as you would call 
them, in the room that "This is not philosophy, it's ontology!" What a 
maroon. Come to think of it, he was a former electrical engineer. (Now 
there's a frightening bit of synchronicity.) No need for concern, Anne, I 
know what level you're playing at.

Anne Marie Tobias states:
I will invite you to
play (I can not force you to celebrate the miracle of being alive), but I
promise the opportunity of a life designed by passion, courage and 
boundless
joy, and if you would join me in this game, I will chip away at who you
thought you were, and gently begin exposing the humanity you buried long 
ago
in the human struggle to be safe

Lot of game players in this group, no? Hen's "buried humanity"? My 
"buried humanity"? Sounds a bit judgemental, doesn't it, Anne Marie? Why, 
we've only just met.

Anne Marie Tobias states:
Hen, among other things, human beings are thrown, determined, by their 
need
to survive. Often at any cost. The price of this survival is often the
quality of aliveness. Survival of the identity is often expressed by the
overpowering need to be right (most often at the cost making another 
wrong),
dominating, or avoiding the domination of others, and the ongoing need to
seek the safe path,  feed one's desire for comfort.

And here Anne Marie reveals the intellectual lineage and general 
bankruptcy of her philosophic notions. This statement is essentially a 
psuedo-Heideggerian idea--i.e., "throwness" or "Geworfenheit"--which 
masks the premise of Weiner's old est program in that the survival 
purpose of the mind is one of its "design functions" (see "Anatomy of the 
Mind" last weeked on the est Basic Program). This idea, although no one 
ever acknowledges it, was purloined by Weiner from L. Ron Hubbard and 
Scientology back in Weiner's Scientology days circa 1968-1969. This idea 
is also the basis for Hubbard's infamous best-seller _Dianetics: The 
Modern Science of Mental Health_. 

Anne Marie Tobias states:
The course that you find so offensive, is an amalgam of concepts &
observations derived from many diverse sources including various poets 
(eg.
E.E. Cummings), Aikido, Zen Philosophy, and yes Heidegger.

Ohhh... Anne Marie shoots again and misses! Sorry, Anne, this is patently 
absurd. The best analysis on how Weiner put together the Forum is in an 
interesting doctoral dissertation at UCLA written by one of your brethren 
in 1991. It's entitled: "Saying The Clearing: A Heiddegerian Analysis of 
the Ontological Rhetoric of Werner Erhard." Even though the author is 
extremely biased, almost embarrasingly so, he does a good analysis. 
Essentially, the Forum is a rehash of the old est program only now based 
on principles and ideas purloined from Maturano, Searles, and Heidegger 
(some of the early Sartre too but don't hold me to that). 

Ann Marie Tobias states:
It would be very much like extracting a fish from the sea to show it
water... something it has never experienced because for fish, water is 
their
ground of being.

This tired old analogy is nothing but recycled est pablum which Weiner 
either ripped off from Zen lore or from Alan Watts. Weiner studied with 
Watts for a while and copied everything about him, including Watt's 
idiosyncratic little laugh. This is documented in _The Upstart Spring: A 
History of Esalen Institute_ (Nora, 1989?). 

Anne Marie Tobias states:
The practice of which,
provides an experience of simply BEing, for no reason, to fix nothing, to
change nothing, to simply honor the miracle of BEing.

This a patent absurdity given the tone of your posts and those of Being 
Bob's.

Anne Marie Tobias states:
I hope Robert doesn't mind my stepping in... He is most eloquent, but I 
feel
there is a contribution that I can make to this discussion.

Eloquent? Are we talking about the same Being Bob that we've all come to 
know and (unconditionally) love? I must go and re-read Guevara to make 
sure.

Anne Marie Tobias states:
Hen, I must say that I am disappointed by your choice of words. The
introduction of "Ebonics" immediately adds a flavor of bigotry, and 
snobbish
elitism to your conversation.

Actually, I thought the reference was rather amusing. It combats your own 
covert elitism. And besides most of your vocabulary that hasn't been 
ripped from Heidegger was ripped off from Scientology: "being," "doing," 
"having," "commitment," "intention," "handle," "clear," "integrity," "at 
cause," and the like. ALL from Scientology. Which brings me to a 
suggestion... there are some very nice Scientology lists out there, maybe 
you'd like to go hang out with them for a while as you'd actually have 
more in common with their readers. Also, you'll find there a link to a 
Scientology dictionary; you should check that out for sure.

Anne Marie Tobias states:
The sarcasm, though clever does not
illuminate. The true student of that which is eternal discovers the 
universe
in a drop of water, or a mote of dust. Didn't Bhuda receive enlightenment
sitting, watching the river and the ferry-man. If you cannot hear the 
intent
of Heidegger in the noise of a playground, then maybe your ears are too 
full
of what you already know...

Gosh, what IS the sound of one hand clapping, oh Master? I'm surprised 
you didn't pull out that old Zen parable about the college professor and 
the Zen master and the pouring of the tea into the cup until long after 
it was overflowing. Know that one, grasshopper? Spare me, Anne, and BTW, 
you mispelled "Buddha."

Anne Maria Tobias states:
When I speak, I will endeavor to speak simply, clearly, and straight to 
the
heart of a matter.

With this statement you must surely be speaking facetiously. What heart 
of the matter? The main criticism I think everyone is sitting on is that 
you and Bob aren't getting at anything. You assert, tease, promise, 
assume, intimate... and ultimately want to "enroll" others, but you don't 
say anything. Never have and never will because you don't have anything 
to say or contribute. 

Anne Maria Tobias states:
I look forward to illumining in the lives of those I speak
to, these qualities...

(The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades...)

Anne Marie Tobias states:
studying the words of Heidegger is wonderful, because he pointed to
something truly amazing... Might I suggest though, do not spend so much 
time
striding the man's hand, and instead follow to where he points... in a
person's life... that will make a difference.

Wonderful. I have to give up working my way through _Being & Time_ and 
reading the posts of Blancato, Pennamacoor, Eldred, Callihan, Shawver and 
the others on this list and go sit through a Special Guest Seminar in 
order to "get" Heidegger. Yeah, right.  

Thanks, Anne, for all your proclaimed unconditional love and 
Rogerian/aikido-inspired, non-positional phrasings but I think I'll pass 
on your email reg card, no matter how nicely worded. Give my best to 
Harry Rosenberg and all the other bootlickers-for-life down at Landmark 
Educational Corporation (formerly Transnational Corporation; formerly 
Werner Erhard & Associates; formerly est, an educational corporation; 
formerly Erhard Seminars Training; originally Restaurant Equipment 
Corporation). And, if you see the Weiner on the road (since he fled the 
U.S. in 1991 as a tax dodger and worse), kill him for me, will you? (See 
_Outrageous Betrayal_ by Steve Pressman, 1993 for further support on 
those allegations).
--------------------------------------------
Shane leaves the court and goes down to the locker room where he can just 
sit and BE for a while. The score is now three-zip but first, we must 
break for the half and this commercial message! We'll be right back.

Cheers!
Paul

;P

ps. Jon Stratton makes an interesting point of the lemmings' pursuit of 
Being into Fascism. Anne Marie, in all sincerity, I strongly suggest that 
you sit down and read Fromm's _Fear of Freedom_ as well as the Pressman 
book. It might help your perspective on the conversion experience you had 
in the Forum. 


 





     --- from list heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---