Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:22:50 -0700
From: Bob/Diane <guevara-AT-rain.org>
Subject: Re: Clarity


hi anthony.  first off.  i think your posts are great.  a listserv of this
sort is rather mysterious.  we really don't know much about any impact that
we may have on the other.  i've learned from you.  tnks.

[note for daniel.  thks for the post.  i'm on the run but i'll get to it.
i really appreciate your input]


>What do you think about the often used example of everydayness - 
>hammering? For example, while you are absorbed in hammering, it does 
>not appear to you as thing (a hammer) performing an action 
>(hammering) upon another thing (a board). Similarly, I do not 
>experience my wife as "an object as opposed to me, the subject" until 
>I enter into at least some level of reflection. Rather, she is simply 
>- my wife. And my kids are simply - my kids.


well anthony.  first a little more disclosure.  i did a landmark education
training many years ago.  it was quite an incredible experience for me.  so
much so that i volunteered to assist in producing some of their programs.
i was fascinated.  i did this for a couple of years and was able to observe
1000s of folks in the training.  my experience is from observing many many
many people "work" through "stops" or barriers in their productivity.  you
must realize that the training is for people that are well.  it is not
intended to "treat" the mentally ill.

[the training and what it entails is way beyond the scope of anything i say
here]

so now it's been many years since then.  i keep in touch w/ other graduates
on an informal basis.  and my facination with this technology (just a
device) continues.  i'm here to sharpen my understanding.  and i really
appreciate the opportunity to talk to ya'll.  i'm strictly detached from
all corporate organization other than my career as an engineer for the U.S.
Government.

about the hammer.  tony, in the default configuration we have our moments
of authenticity.  clearly we do.  our lives are heavily and rigidly
organized by "conceptualization" but sometimes, in certain contexts, we
just let go of our "idea" of the world and just "hammer."

about your kids.  of course they are your kids.  despite the obvious case
of reflection you also mentally check with an "idea" of your child before
(in real-time actually) interacting with him/her.  what i'm saying is that
this mental checking isn't always on the level of "the little voice"
talking in an psuedo-audible way.  it is that we be our "minds" as
metaphysically grounded beings.  we are that the world is a certain way.
[note: for me "mind" is metaphysics]

i mean that this is a good thing.  it adds "workable" structure to the
world.  see it's not only for us as individuals that the world is a certain
way.  it is for everyone a certain way in that many "things" exist as if
they are "independent of language." (eg mountains. cars. chairs etc)  i'm
not talking about solipsism.  go back to my original sketch of human being
as a "matrix of filters."

so i'm sure that you have a great relationship with your kids.  however
some folks have varying degrees of workability in relationships.  my
experience in observing many folks work through to higher levels of
workability was that inevitably, it was their interaction through a
"filter" or adaptation mechanism that presented the limiting factor in such
workability.  it appears that we (for the most part) interact with the
world through an intermediary structure.  and we do this involuntarily.
the psych people would say: "unconsciously")

to make a long story short.  it seems that our personalities are developed
or shaped by certain pivotal experiences in life.  it is "good" to have a
personality but it is "workable" to be in charge of it's deployment.  i
know that sounds funny but have you ever noticed how emotions seem to
"possess" you involuntarily.  sorta like the alien jumping on your face.

"it" thinks you as i sketched some time ago.

what if we weren't grounded metaphysically?  i propose that we would still
"feel" the feelings that we normally feel but we wouldn't be given by this
structure (authentic moments excepted.)

questions?

once again.  thanks anthony...



Robert T. Guevara   | guevara-AT-rain.org
Electrical Engineer | guevarb-AT-mugu.navy.mil
Camarillo CA, USA   | http://www.rain.org/~guevara


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