File spoon-archives/heidegger.archive/heidegger_2001/heidegger.0105, message 15


Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 18:13:32 +0200
Subject: Re: Rhetoric


Allen,

Have you any idea, when Heidegger's rhetoric will appear?

Allen:
If we look at these courses on Aristotle and Plato in 1924-25 as a prelude
to the writing of SuZ, we can see Heidegger setting the stage for himself
in the starring role as- - you guessed it- - Plato-Aristotle.  And of
course he pulls it off.  He thinks the everyday with Aristotle in a
discourse which overcomes his own inherited tendencies ( going all the way
back to Plato) torward metaphysical assertion!

Rene:
In the later commentaries of Heidegger to Aristoteles' Physics and
Metaphysics, I don't see this thread continued. (Later, the metaphysical
home position of a
thinker is not related back to everydayness)

Allen:
I agree.  Once he has "overcome" metaphysics through his "hermeneutics of
facticity, " Heidegger now has a  new" metaphysical home position," in
poetic conceits such as the thinker's discourse "longing to be at home
everywhere at the same time." He feels he has earned this new home position
( I really like that phrase) due to what he has accomplished in language
It's not that his overcoming metaphysics is complete, but it has reached a
new place.

Allen,

That's a good link, metaph. home position - Novalis' saying. Indeed
Heidegger has then
reached a new place - but not itself a metaphysical position. That went
'wrong' after BT, when,
together with Scheler he wanted to start up a new metaphysics, with an
ontic approach of
Dasein, which would parallel Scheler's "The place of man in the kosmos". In
Poeggeler's last
book he gives a good historical overview. (Gadamer said about Poeggeler: he
is a good
historian)

Overcoming metaphysics is a hard task, when we 'live' in the completion of
it (Vollendung).
This means, a.o., that in Hegel and Nietzsche, metaphysics pulls its last
consequences.
For Nietzsche truth and error are merely functions of life, and "being"
only a shadow.    
Heidegger drops very soon the notion of life. And one could ask: what right
does Nietzsche
have to use this word? Is it not, in its connectedness with "becoming" and
"will", a last "evidence"  in the Cartesian sense, that is: still a home?
Does it not say (presume) too much already, as if we know what that is,
life, and that we are it? Whereas only this inconspicious  word "being"
says nothing at all.
Indeed, "being' is the least differential, in-different thing you can say
of something.

When Heidegger in his formally-indicating hermeneutics reaches out for the
not-occurrent
Dasein, in order to be able to say what 'being' (Sinn des Seins) is, the
result seems more negative that positive: there is no meaning left.
Facticity (and Gelassenheit) can hardly be 
called a new home.
Building a new home, or only preparing it, presupposes destruction up to
the bottom, which 
the German says very well: zum Grunde gehen.  (Grundstimmung)

Rene:
 Also, the Rhetoric must have some place
in the whole of Aristoteles' works, although it is not a system.

Allen:
Aristotle leaves its place unmarked, though there are strong hints in the
N.Ethics, Book VI, Chapt 9, where rhetoric is implicitly identified with
deliberation as the discourse in which the phronimos "excells."
"Correctness of deliberation" is how the Phronimos shows himself to be
such. Rhetoric is thus amenable to judgment, to being judged.  Heidegger
sees himself as the Phronimos of modern philosophy!  So the rectorship
would be the least of what he thought he deserved!

So in response to your question at the end of the post, i would say that
rhetoric for Aristotle and Heidegger is NOT supplemental, but rather
contains within the range of its dunamis the sum and substance Verstehen.

Rene:
If you replace Heidegger with Gadamer, I agree.

I must run.  I think I might have overstated some things in haste here, but
perhaps that's for the betterment of the discussion.

Everything is better than treacherous vagueness. 

thanks,

Rene

 




















Moines, Iowa 50311 PHONE: 515 271 2869 FAX: 515 271 3826   

-----------------------------------
drs. René de Bakker
Universiteitsbibliotheek Amsterdam
Afdeling Catalogisering 
tel. 020-5252368              


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