Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 10:41:18 -0500
From: allen scult <allen.scult-AT-drake.edu>
Subject: Re: prognosis vs. forecasting



--Boundary_(ID_mrsIScRScMwJvYSh8wpS0g)

At 11:13 AM +0200 9/22/01, Michael Eldred wrote:
>Cologne 22-Sep-2001
>
>allen scult schrieb  Fri, 21 Sep 2001 12:50:02 -0500:
>
>>  Rene and Michael,getting closer and closer to. . .so close that each
>>  word seems to fragment in the face of getting closer.  Very delicate,
>>  operating at such close range. Wonderful to watch!  I'm wondering if
>>  somewhere in here there's room for discussion of another term I've
>>  been wondering about: "Entdecklichkeit" ( usually translated as "
>>  discoveredness"
>
>Allen,
>"Entdecklichkeit" sounds like "discoverability". But the German is 
>"Entdecktheit"
>(GA20:354), i.e. discoveredness.


Michael,

Thanks for the gentle correction.  But of course it's all Heidegger's 
fault for sticking the "t" in after the "ck" for no discernably good 
reason except to get the word to do what he wanted it to do in order 
to indicate what he wanted to indicate.  And you're right, I was 
wanting to read the indication of the word as "discoverability" which 
to me suggests a  quality of the thing itself, which makes its nature 
accessable as what it is,providing one has the appropriate 
orientation towards it.

As I read the rest of your post,it occurs to me that sometimes my 
reading of Heidegger might be colored by an unwarranted optimism, by 
which I mean a tendency to want to optimize the possibilities of 
existence.  This tendency is especially prevalent during the time of 
my teaching, based on an intentional misreading of Nietzsche:

"Whoever is a teacher through and through takes all things seriously 
only in relation to his students-even himself"  ( Nietzsche, Beyond 
Good and Evil).

I don't try to "save" them mind you, I just try to make sure that in 
relation to whatever we're studying, I give them the minimal 
wherewithall to " go on."

Allen

>
>>  At 6:02 PM +0200 9/21/01, Rene de Bakker wrote:
>>
>>  >
>>  >The problem with thinking something like this, is not analytical.
>>  >
>>  >>And phenomena cannot be restricted to the self-showing of beings,
>>  >>but encompass also the showing of beyng itself, including its quivering
>>  >>(Erzitterung), and including its self-hiding (the negation or un- of
>>  >>self-showing). The self-hiding of beyng itself too needs an enabling
>>  >dimension:
>>  >>the openness of _alaetheia_ or the clearing.
>>
>>  I think Michael adds an extra link here by naming this an "enabling
>>  dimension" of beyng's self-hiding.  Wouldn't it be more accurate to
>>  say that the self-hiding of beyng is self-enabling?  i.e. the
>>  self-hiding is "enabled" by the self-hiding. In the almost
>>  indiscernably small space between the first self-hiding and the
>>  second, I want to place "endecklichkeit."
>
>This would mean that beyng's self-enabled self-hiding can be 
>discovered by human
>being (Dasein) becoming open to the self-hiding and thus becoming itself.
>
>>  Heidegger uses the term in relation to Dasein, arguing that
>>  Discoveredness is a part of Dasein's very being, its "there." As a
>>  matter of fact Heidegger equates the there-being of Dasein with
>>  Discoveredness.  He sees them as " co-original.":
>>  " Dasein constantly takes care of its there, its discoveredness" (
>>  das Dasein besorgt staendig sein Da, seine Entdecklichkeit) ( 354,
>>  "Prolegomena. .. "
>>
>>  This caring of course is not an act of deliberate generosity on
>>  Dasein's part, but rather is a necessary concommitent of its being
>>  there.  I guess I want to ask if we might apply this notion of
>>  Entdecklichkeit to beyng as a "hermeneutic" characteristic of beyng--
>>  that is, the way beyng gives itself to be understood ( which of
>>  course is different from the discoveredness of Dasein). It is in
>>  discoveredness that the self-hiding of beyng is self enabling.
>
>I wouldn't say that, for discoveredness is thought in GA20 as Dasein's
>discoveredness, and self-hiding does not depend on Dasein's discoveredness.
>Rather, Dasein's discoveredness depends on the sending of being from its
>self-hiding. As long as human being is oblivious to beyng's 
>self-hiding, the Da
>has not been grounded, and human being is also oblivious to its own 
>oblivion (a
>necessary trait of forgetting: the forgetting itself is forgotten, withdrawn).
>
>Gruss,
>Michael
>_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-  artefact text and translation _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
>_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- made by art  _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
>http://www.webcom.com/artefact/ _-_-_-_-_-_- artefact-AT-webcom.com
>_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Dr Michael Eldred -_-_-
>_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
>
>>  Or perhaps what I've just done is further needless fragmentation of
>>  this very delicate space just this side of beyng.
>>
>>  If so, I apologize for the mess.
>>
>>  Allen
>>  --
>>    Allen Scult                                   Dept. of Philosophy
>>  HOMEPAGE: " Heidegger on Rhetoric and Hermeneutics":    Drake University
>  > http://www.multimedia2.drake.edu/s/scult/scult.html     Des 
>Moines, Iowa 50311
>>  PHONE: 515 271 2869
>>  FAX: 515 271 3826
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>      --- from list heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---


-- 
  Allen Scult					Dept. of Philosophy
HOMEPAGE: " Heidegger on Rhetoric and Hermeneutics":	Drake University
http://www.multimedia2.drake.edu/s/scult/scult.html	Des Moines, Iowa 50311
PHONE: 515 271 2869
FAX: 515 271 3826

--Boundary_(ID_mrsIScRScMwJvYSh8wpS0g)

HTML VERSION:

Cologne 22-Sep-2001

allen scult schrieb  Fri, 21 Sep 2001 12:50:02 -0500:

> Rene and Michael,getting closer and closer to. . .so close that each
> word seems to fragment in the face of getting closer.  Very delicate,
> operating at such close range. Wonderful to watch!  I'm wondering if
> somewhere in here there's room for discussion of another term I've
> been wondering about: "Entdecklichkeit" ( usually translated as "
> discoveredness"

Allen,
"Entdecklichkeit" sounds like "discoverability". But the German is "Entdecktheit"
(GA20:354), i.e. discoveredness.

> At 6:02 PM +0200 9/21/01, Rene de Bakker wrote:
>
> >
> >The problem with thinking something like this, is not analytical.
> >
> >>And phenomena cannot be restricted to the self-showing of beings,
> >>but encompass also the showing of beyng itself, including its quivering
> >>(Erzitterung), and including its self-hiding (the negation or un- of
> >>self-showing). The self-hiding of beyng itself too needs an enabling
> >dimension:
> >>the openness of _alaetheia_ or the clearing.
>
> I think Michael adds an extra link here by naming this an "enabling
> dimension" of beyng's self-hiding.  Wouldn't it be more accurate to
> say that the self-hiding of beyng is self-enabling?  i.e. the
> self-hiding is "enabled" by the self-hiding. In the almost
> indiscernably small space between the first self-hiding and the
> second, I want to place "endecklichkeit."

This would mean that beyng's self-enabled self-hiding can be discovered by human
being (Dasein) becoming open to the self-hiding and thus becoming itself.

> Heidegger uses the term in relation to Dasein, arguing that
> Discoveredness is a part of Dasein's very being, its "there." As a
> matter of fact Heidegger equates the there-being of Dasein with
> Discoveredness.  He sees them as " co-original.":
> " Dasein constantly takes care of its there, its discoveredness" (
> das Dasein besorgt staendig sein Da, seine Entdecklichkeit) ( 354,
> "Prolegomena. .. "
>
> This caring of course is not an act of deliberate generosity on
> Dasein's part, but rather is a necessary concommitent of its being
> there.  I guess I want to ask if we might apply this notion of
> Entdecklichkeit to beyng as a "hermeneutic" characteristic of beyng--
> that is, the way beyng gives itself to be understood ( which of
> course is different from the discoveredness of Dasein). It is in
> discoveredness that the self-hiding of beyng is self enabling.

I wouldn't say that, for discoveredness is thought in GA20 as Dasein's
discoveredness, and self-hiding does not depend on Dasein's discoveredness.
Rather, Dasein's discoveredness depends on the sending of being from its
self-hiding. As long as human being is oblivious to beyng's self-hiding, the Da

has not been grounded, and human being is also oblivious to its own oblivion (a
necessary trait of forgetting: the forgetting itself is forgotten, withdrawn).

Gruss,
Michael
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-  artefact text and translation _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- made by art  _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
http://www.webcom.com/artefact/ _-_-_-_-_-_- artefact-AT-webcom.com
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Dr Michael Eldred -_-_-
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

> Or perhaps what I've just done is further needless fragmentation of
> this very delicate space just this side of beyng.
>
> If so, I apologize for the mess.
>
> Allen
> --
>   Allen Scult                                   Dept. of Philosophy
> HOMEPAGE: " Heidegger on Rhetoric and Hermeneutics":    Drake University

> http://www.multimedia2.drake.edu/s/scult/scult.html     Des Moines, Iowa 50311
> PHONE: 515 271 2869
> FAX: 515 271 3826
>





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