Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 01:02:44 -0700 (PDT) --0-1996623430-1028534564=:20965 TRANSLATION MACHINE DR. MICHAEL ELDRED: > I don't know of a PC-installable program, but I can recommend the web > site Perseus for its excellent collection of ancient philosophical texts > with translation function. > > Do you know it? Look up > http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/perscoll?collection=Greco-Roman&type=text&lang=greek GARY C MOORE: Yes, but unfortunately it is just single words at a time. For others who are interested, it is called "Word Study Tool" and is located at the below site: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/morphindex?type=begin&lang=greek&options=Sort+Results+Alphabetically > The French program I am using to translate Henry Corbin translates in context so that I can have a first draft to work from that is fairly correct and comprehensible in itself. Problematic points stand out as obvious so that you save a great deal of time from dealing with minor details and poor memory of French in my case. However, I seem to be picking up my French from twenty-five years ago quite fast, and can use the French text to fine-tune the mechanical translation. Several universities are working on Greek translation programs that I hope are like that, but none are available. I did find an expensive Latin translation capability, but it was for a Macintosh computer & I have an IBM clone. If one is translating Greek from a text with even a bad translation in a major Western language one has a framework and guide to work by and pinpoint specific problems. But I want to translate the 11th century Byzantine philosopher Michael Psellus of whom, other than bits and pieces, only his CHRONOGRAPHIA or FOURTEEN BYZANTINE RULERS is in English. I have several volumes of his philosophical and theological writings but they are totally in Greek. There has only been one book written in English really about Psellus -- THE ARGUMENT OF PSELLOS' CHRONOGRAPHIA by Anthony Kaldellis (University of Michigan), Brill, 1999 -- which draws an excellent and absolutely intriguing portrait of Psellus. He was a major political figure in his time and participated importantly in many of the historical situations he describes in the CHRONOGRAPHIA. Kaldellis makes two strong points about him: 1) That he developed a thoroughly Machiavellian political philosophy implicitly within his history; 2) That he was a secret Platonic pagan like Georgius Gemistos Plethon who was so openly. He had to defend himself as a 'true' Christian numerous times against the accusation of being a pagan. But he also numerous times emphasizes the importance of philosophy as completely independent of being a handmaiden to theology. And the obvious tongue-in-cheek portraits he draws of superstitious Christians, especially the empress Irene talking to while weeping and begging, to her little image of Jesus Christ, he does masterfully without revealing his true feelings to the censorious Orthodox church that still burnt heretics, though not anywhere near as much as the Roman Catholic Church. In the CHRONOGRAPHIA he sings the sweet praises of Plato and Proclus when he describes his education. “Then, continuing my voyage, I put in at the mighty harbour of the admirable Proclus, eagerly picking up there his doctrine of perception, both in its broad principles and in its exact interpretation. From Proclus I intended to proceed to more advanced studies – metaphysics, with an introduction to pure science – so I began with an examination of abstract conceptions in the so-called mathematics, which hold apposition midway between the science of corporeal nature, with the external apprehension of those bodies, and the ideas themselves, the object of pure thought. I hoped to apprehend from this study something that was beyond the reach of mind, something that was not subject to the limitations of substance. FOURTEEN BYZANTINE RULERS, trans. E. R. A. Sewter, Peguin Books, 1966, page 174 in his history of Constantine IX 1042-55. [This whole text, sometimes with numbered paragraphs, is available at several sites on the internet.] It was his education in rhetoric, however, that gave him his great political power. He is one of the nearest examples to Plato’s philosopher king, and like Plato’s Dion who overthrew Dionysios II in Syracuse, he shows it is impossible to deal with other people in political situations on any kind of a real philosophical basis. The paragraph quoted above has been one of the things that has intrigued me about his philosophy. Like his political ambitions, his philosophical ambitions seem to have been great also. But one of the pitfalls of Platonic philosophy (Aristotle was all right with the Orthodox Church as is seen in the controversy between the Patriarch Scholarios and Georgius Gemistus Plethon) is seen in the example of Psellus’ student John Italos who was tried and convicted of heresy and made to recant his Platonic views. Anyway, the point is that there is absolutely NO guideline to the translation of Psellus’ Greek, and that it why I am searching for translation software. ‘Sincerely’ Gary C. Moore --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! 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DR. MICHAEL ELDRED:
> I don't know of a PC-installable program, but I can recommend the web
> site Perseus for its excellent collection of ancient philosophical texts
> with translation function.
>
> Do you know it? Look up
> http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/perscoll?collection=Greco-Roman&type=text&lang=greek
Yes, but unfortunately it is just single words at a time. For others who are interested, it is called "Word Study Tool" and is located at the below site:
>
The French program I am using to translate Henry Corbin translates in context so that I can have a first draft to work from that is fairly correct and comprehensible in itself. Problematic points stand out as obvious so that you save a great deal of time from dealing with minor details and poor memory of French in my case. However, I seem to be picking up my French from twenty-five years ago quite fast, and can use the French text to fine-tune the mechanical translation. Several universities are working on Greek translation programs that I hope are like that, but none are available. I did find an expensive Latin translation capability, but it was for a Macintosh computer & I have an IBM clone.
If one is translating Greek from a text with even a bad translation in a major Western language one has a framework and guide to work by and pinpoint specific problems. But I want to translate the 11th century Byzantine philosopher Michael Psellus of whom, other than bits and pieces, only his CHRONOGRAPHIA or FOURTEEN BYZANTINE RULERS is in English. I have several volumes of his philosophical and theological writings but they are totally in Greek. There has only been one book written in English really about Psellus -- THE ARGUMENT OF PSELLOS' CHRONOGRAPHIA by Anthony Kaldellis (University of Michigan), Brill, 1999 -- which draws an excellent and absolutely intriguing portrait of Psellus. He was a major political figure in his time and participated importantly in many of the historical situations he describes in the CHRONOGRAPHIA. Kaldellis makes two strong points about him: 1) That he developed a thoroughly Machiavellian political philosophy implicitly within his history; 2) That he was a secret Platonic pagan like Georgius Gemistos Plethon who was so openly. He had to defend himself as a 'true' Christian numerous times against the accusation of being a pagan. But he also numerous times emphasizes the importance of philosophy as completely independent of being a handmaiden to theology. And the obvious tongue-in-cheek portraits he draws of superstitious Christians, especially the empress Irene talking to while weeping and begging, to her little image of Jesus Christ, he does masterfully without revealing his true feelings to the censorious Orthodox church that still burnt heretics, though not anywhere near as much as the Roman Catholic Church. In the CHRONOGRAPHIA he sings the sweet praises of Plato and Proclus when he describes his education.
“Then, continuing my voyage, I put in at the mighty harbour of the admirable Proclus, eagerly picking up there his doctrine of perception, both in its broad principles and in its exact interpretation. From Proclus I intended to proceed to more advanced studies – metaphysics, with an introduction to pure science – so I began with an examination of abstract conceptions in the so-called mathematics, which hold apposition midway between the science of corporeal nature, with the external apprehension of those bodies, and the ideas themselves, the object of pure thought. I hoped to apprehend from this study something that was beyond the reach of mind, something that was not subject to the limitations of substance. FOURTEEN BYZANTINE RULERS, trans. E. R. A. Sewter, Peguin Books, 1966, page 174 in his history of Constantine IX 1042-55. [This whole text, sometimes with numbered paragraphs, is available at several sites on the internet.]
It was his education in rhetoric, however, that gave him his great political power. He is one of the nearest examples to Plato’s philosopher king, and like Plato’s Dion who overthrew Dionysios II in Syracuse, he shows it is impossible to deal with other people in political situations on any kind of a real philosophical basis. The paragraph quoted above has been one of the things that has intrigued me about his philosophy. Like his political ambitions, his philosophical ambitions seem to have been great also. But one of the pitfalls of Platonic philosophy (Aristotle was all right with the Orthodox Church as is seen in the controversy between the Patriarch Scholarios and Georgius Gemistus Plethon) is seen in the example of Psellus’ student John Italos who was tried and convicted of heresy and made to recant his Platonic views.
Anyway, the point is that there is absolutely NO guideline to the translation of Psellus’ Greek, and that it why I am searching for translation software.
‘Sincerely’
Gary C. Moore
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