Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 02:16:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fwd: Re: TRANSLATION SOFTWARE


--0-1169850425-1028625367=:37609


 
 Michael Eldred wrote:
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 17:56:14 +0200
From: Michael Eldred 
To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Subject: Re: TRANSLATION SOFTWARE

Cologne 05-Aug-2002

"Gary C. Moore" schrieb Mon, 5 Aug 2002 02:55:30 -0700 (PDT):

Gary,

As a professional translator, I have some acquaintance with automatic
translation software, and the results are pretty funny on the whole.

GARY C MOORE:

Yes. In translating Henry Corbin, he refers in a footnote to "Jean Trouillard" which came out "Jean Yellowbelly." However, this literalness does relate how words like etre and etants are seen in common, non-philosophical parlance which Heidegger does quite often with both the German and the Greek to bring us back to our senses from the philosophical fantasy land I, at least, sometimes drift into. It is Heidegger's literalness that I find as the main key to all of his thinking. When he is being precise, he is never figurative or symbolic - none of the great philosophers are - however, many 'philosophical' scholars are for many reasons, i. e., not to be pinned down to a definitive position, to be in the contemporary mode, to be in the current political groove, etc. -- but always literal just like a specific shoe maker making a specific shoe out of specific lether at a specific time and place. Translation software is just a specific tool for specific people - specifically me who is very stupid about learning foreign languages - I am having great difficulty with French - How could I possibly understand Greek without a whole hell of a lot of help?

DR. ELDRED:

 As for philosophy, even a human translation is only as good as the thinking of the translator him or herself, and is always a particular, more or
less enlightening interpretation. That's why, if you really want to get
to the heart of a thinker's thinking, such as Aristotle, there's no
alternative to learning the language for yourself.

GARY C MOORE:

This is true enough. But at least in the US -- and Great Britain -- many philosophical texts are translated by people who are philosophically clueless, that are more literary critics or classical (or other) linguists than philosophers. So I think there is plenty of room for me to do what I am trying to do. Henry Corbin has a great understanding of Heidegger and applies it well, but this issometimes lost by the translator who sometimes is much more oriented towards Jungian psychology or the likes of Mercea Eliade. W. D. Ross, the great translator of Aristotle, sounds silly many times when he is trying to explain what he thought Aristotle thought. He is agreat editor and a great pathfinder in the translation of Aristotle. But it is people like Johnathan Barnes that really get into the nuts and bolts of Aristotle's thinking and have to come behind Ross and his associates and revise their translations.


DR. ELDRED:
Heidegger's translations and interpretations of Greek passages and
individual Greek words are invaluable because he is always at pains to
point out simple phenomena behind philosophical words that the tradition
tends to employ as abstract terminology. Gadamer, by contrast, is
disappointing. His translation, say, of Aristotle Nic. Eth. Book VI is
lousy.

Michael
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- artefact text and translation _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- made by art _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
http://www.webcom.com/artefact/ _-_-_-_-_-_- artefact-AT-webcom.com
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Dr Michael Eldred -_-_-
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_






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--0-1169850425-1028625367=:37609

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 Michael Eldred wrote:

Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 17:56:14 +0200
From: Michael Eldred
To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Subject: Re: TRANSLATION SOFTWARE

Cologne 05-Aug-2002

"Gary C. Moore" schrieb Mon, 5 Aug 2002 02:55:30 -0700 (PDT):

Gary,

As a professional translator, I have some acquaintance with automatic
translation software, and the results are pretty funny on the whole.

GARY C MOORE:

Yes. In translating Henry Corbin, he refers in a footnote to "Jean Trouillard" which came out "Jean Yellowbelly." However, this literalness does relate how words like etre and etants are seen in common, non-philosophical parlance which Heidegger does quite often with both the German and the Greek to bring us back to our senses from the philosophical fantasy land I, at least, sometimes drift into. It is Heidegger's literalness that I find as the main key to all of his thinking. When he is being precise, he is never figurative or symbolic - none of the great philosophers are - however, many 'philosophical' scholars are for many reasons, i. e., not to be pinned down to a definitive position, to be in the contemporary mode, to be in the current political groove, etc. -- but always literal just like a specific shoe maker making a specific shoe out of specific lether at a specific time and place. Translation software is just a specific tool for specific people - specifically me who is very stupid about learning foreign languages - I am having great difficulty with French - How could I possibly understand Greek without a whole hell of a lot of help?

DR. ELDRED:

 As for philosophy, even a human translation is only as good as the thinking of the translator him or herself, and is always a particular, more or
less enlightening interpretation. That's why, if you really want to get
to the heart of a thinker's thinking, such as Aristotle, there's no
alternative to learning the language for yourself.

GARY C MOORE:

This is true enough. But at least in the US -- and Great Britain -- many philosophical texts are translated by people who are philosophically clueless, that are more literary critics or classical (or other) linguists than philosophers. So I think there is plenty of room for me to do what I am trying to do. Henry Corbin has a great understanding of Heidegger and applies it well, but this issometimes lost by the translator who sometimes is much more oriented towards Jungian psychology or the likes of Mercea Eliade. W. D. Ross, the great translator of Aristotle, sounds silly many times when he is trying to explain what he thought Aristotle thought. He is agreat editor and a great pathfinder in the translation of Aristotle. But it is people like Johnathan Barnes that really get into the nuts and bolts of Aristotle's thinking and have to come behind Ross and his associates and revise their translations.

DR. ELDRED:
Heidegger's translations and interpretations of Greek passages and
individual Greek words are invaluable because he is always at pains to
point out simple phenomena behind philosophical words that the tradition
tends to employ as abstract terminology. Gadamer, by contrast, is
disappointing. His translation, say, of Aristotle Nic. Eth. Book VI is
lousy.

Michael
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- artefact text and translation _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- made by art _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
http://www.webcom.com/artefact/ _-_-_-_-_-_- artefact-AT-webcom.com
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Dr Michael Eldred -_-_-
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_






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