Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:54:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fwd: More Sermonising


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Jud: 
I agree with you that some statistical surveys are less reliable than others, and a lot depends on the nature of the questions asked, 

Gary C. Moore:

Actually, a really good statistical survey is going to cover so many related and mutualy influencing parameters that it cannot present clearly any definite conclusion. It will operate like a vicious circle in logic, i.e., "This cannot be defined without that yet that cannot be defined without this." However, such a survey could very well bring out totally unexpected elements of great importance if the investigation is carried through without prejudice or influence. Actually finding out what so-called 'ordinary' people, inclusive of you, me, and thee, but most of all thee, would actually be fascinating and I guarantee a complete surprize and maybe something, afterward, we would have wished we never knew.

JUD EVANS:

as per the TV discussion today concerning a survey of Americans being in agreement with the  of attacking of  Iraq, [given as 70% in favour] This has probably been more widely reported on your TV stations than ours, so I won't bother going into more details about how the result has been challenged etc. 


GARY C. MOORE:
It is total garbage. Bush is scaring the shit out of me. He is getting sensible, conservative people whipped up intoi a war frenzy. But what specifically has Saddamn done recently that he hasn't done continuously and consistently for more than thirty years? Washington is getting very, very strange. People like Powell know there is an extremely serious problem about our 'allies' in such a war. We get Prince Faud Air Base loaded up with equipment and personel, our Saudi guards could very well and knowingly deliberatly let in a suicide bomber but this time with with a thermo-nuclear warhead donated from Osama ben Laden. In such a situation you do not need sophistication. All you need is a truck - like in Beireut. In Saudi Arabia, religion comes first, one's 'country' that one sets off an atomic bomb in is way down the list of most important things whereas killing Americans and Britons is very high on that list.

JUD EVANS:

The gathering of other, more certain information however which compares the deaths of lung cancer by smokers compared with non-smokers is so overwhelming that no reasonable person could fail to agree with the findings. 


GARY C MOORE:

You suddenly made me realize something I had known all the time and had not fit together. Doctors doing autopsies have known physiologically, as a goddamn obvious as hell fact right before their eyes, what tobacco does to lungs FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS AT LEAST! Tobacco can completely occlude the lung up to 75% capacity without the person really noticing they have a problem. A disected smoker's lung is a goddamn pool of tar. Statistics were NEVER needed and certainly did not tell scientists of any sort knowledgeable of the situation anything new WHATSOEVER! "Put that in your pipe and smoke it!" Now I'm starting to get as angry as you obviously are but I should have known better and sooner. There are a whole bunch of mutherfuckers that need to be (censored).


X: 
Just as Hubert L. Dreyfus described it in his discussion of Aristotles wise man and Heidegger's discussion of Aristotles phronesis in PLATOS SOPHIST (available at one of Dreyfus web sites). But all of this, in an honest and intelligent person is just a plan of action according to rational expectation that might well turn out otherwise than one expected and one should be prepared for. 

Jud: 
Yes, every person should be allowed to make their own choices if they are armed with the full details that are connected with the pros and cons of a given course of action. 

GARY C MOORE:

That applies to a whole hell of a lot more than just smoking right now.

JUD EVANS:

Unfortunately for years the bad effects of drink, cigarettes and crap food were known by the manufacturers but not passed on the consumers - so the consumers' "freedom of choice" was in fact non-existent. Hence the big court cases ongong right now. 

GARY C MOORE:

Phillip-Morris owns too much of America.They own the companies that own the companies that own the companies, etc, etc, etc.You knock that kingpin down for real, the whole sheebang goes to pieces. I think I just read the same thing in Arthur Schlesinger's account of the causes of the great 1929 crash. "Those who do not learn their history are doomed to repeat it."

X: 

This strangely applies equally well if you deliberately want to drink yourself to death. You may well have a long life of misery and meanness. 

Jud: 
I am reminded of the part in Antoine de St Exupery's Petit Prins [Little Prince] when he meets the dipsomaniac: 

“What are you doing there? He said to the tippler whom he found settled down in silence before a collection of empty bottles and also a collection of full bottles. 

“I am drinking," replied the tippler, with a lugubrious air. 
'Why are you drinking?” demanded the little Prince. 
So that I may forget," replied the tippler. 
Forget what? inquired the little Prince, who already was sorry for him 
“Forget that I am ashamed," the tippler confessed, hanging his head. 
" Ashamed' of what?" insisted the little prince, who wanted to help him. 
"Ashamed of drinking!” The tippler brought his speech to an end, and shut himself up in an impregnable silence. 
And the little prince went away, puzzled 
“The grown-ups are certainly very, very odd," he said to himself as he continued on his journey. 


GARY C MOORE:

I have to quit. My computer is doing funny things. And I want to get drunk.

'Sincerely'

Gary C. Moore



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