Subject: Re: A SERMON
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:29:43 +0200


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.


I think the problem lies at a deeper level, not the failure of machines, the expense and so on, but the failure of Capitalism to reconcile itself with the deeper needs and aspirations of man.  In this case Globalisation came into conflict with one of the world's great religions, Islam, which extends back much farther in time than Capitalism does.  As it has far greater traditions and ensuing respect amongst its followers, who are equally prepared to throw away their lives as a protest against the purported iniquities of Capitalism, its apparant greed and selfishness.  Capitalism is an economic system, it does not serve the higher aspirations of man, it simply satisfies those basic needs you describe, namely food, entertainment, all kinds of mind and body candy to distract Western man away from the pitiful void within.  The plea for a reconciliation between science and religion, between Capitalism and religion, was made many years ago in Aldous Huxley's novel 'Brave New World', it is obvious that the message of this book looms ominously over the events of 9.11.  Communism failed as an economic system, and also to satisfy those deeper needs, mainly because it provides no satisfactory answer or conclusions about human destiny, other than the dystopia it eventually became, which is not to say that the Russian or Spanish Revolutions did not begin with great idealism, enthusiasm and creativity.  Perhaps Communism might work in some other, some different context today?  Capitalism must not be seen by the masses in the West as a replacement for religion, but this is how it is seen, and there is a void waiting to be filled, because orthodox, conventional religion has also failed in the West, but not, as we have seen, in the East.  Clearly this void is waiting to be filled, and some of the tendencies that began to be made manifest in the last decade might crystallise into a new movement.  For it to matter it has to be more fundamentally transformative than the movements of the past, which all failed miserably - all we might know is that there must be change....
Paul Murphy 
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: GEVANS613-AT-aol.com
  To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
  Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:06 PM
  Subject: Re: A SERMON


  In a message dated 03/10/2002 09:11:42 GMT Daylight Time, gospode-AT-yahoo.com writes:



    Subj:A SERMON
    Date:03/10/2002 09:11:42 GMT Daylight Time
    From:    gospode-AT-yahoo.com (Gary C. Moore)
    Sender:    owner-heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
    Reply-to: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
    To:    heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu





    SECOND INSTALLMENT:
    Jud:
    Thankfully  for me and the rest of us, the scientist's guesses have been pretty good, for in my own lifetime I have seen many diseases conquered, diseases which even fifty years ago caused the deaths of many of my friends and family members - TB, diphtheria, meningitis, polio, - diseases which are now treatable thanks to science. I personally hope that scientists will continue their wonderful guessing and rid us of cancer and multiple sclerosis and all of the other diseases that that malevolent bearded fellow up in the sky visited upon us in a fit of peek just because some bimbo ate an apple in the so-called garden of Eden.
    I think also that putting a landing capsule complete with human occupants down on the moon within a few yards of where it was supposed to go was a pretty good guess on the behalf of those American scientists.


    GARY C MOORE:
    I have no argument with this as far as it goes. It does seem nice and I do appreciate it. But conquered is by far too strong of a word. The US is in an utter panic now because, after numerous warnings beforehand once again, they now realize they have NOT conquered smallpox at all, that most living Americans do NOT have smallpox vaccinations, and that it is very possible smallpox could be used as a biological weapon. My main objection is not against such accomplishments in and off themselves, but is against how they are abused, how people are lied to either as to whether such diseases can ever really be conquered as we are finding out about smallpox now, that such cures and vaccinations really have eradicated the disease, etc. This is NOT the fault of the scientists that actually accomplish these things. Everything you say about that very limited group of people is perfectly true. And, on the other hand, many concerned scientists have been giving warnings for years that we are far too overconfident about these things. The problem is with the bureaucratic scientists who oversee these projects and it is they who give the greatest possible claims for what the creative scientist subordinate to him precisely accomplishes. These people are after the big bucks and have nothing whatsoever to do with benevolence toward the unwashed and ignorant masses which some of them want to get rid of anyway.

    It has to do with the government bureaucrats who want people to think positively, that is, not really know the truth in the matter. It has to do with politicians who want to bask in the fame that they helped accomplish this end. They do not want anything to do with ifs, ands, or buts. Thats negative thinking. And they never considered that in the future something will happen that will expose their lies. This is what happened with 9-11 for instance. It is a downright lie to say, as Bush did, that the government had no way to anticipate that happening. People that resigned from the Federal Aviation Association did the best they could to bring this to peoples attention years ago. The Israelis and EL AL have been telling us the same thing for years. The plain, straightforward history of the last forty years should have led someone to think precisely that such an attack would occur since Muslim terrorists had become experts in hijacking planes and blowing them up. Do you remembers that news reel from the 70s of the exploding highjacked airliners at a landing place in Jordan. Those tactics failed, and they stopped doing it for a while. But any idiot could figure out that they would blow up something like the Twin Towers or the Pentagon by doing something they have done many times before: hijacking airliners. When suicide bombers became the new fad, it was absolutely inevitable something like that would happen. But in the US positive thinking prevailed. It cannot happen here. And more to the point, it would cost the air lines too much money to install protection along the same lines as EL AL has been doing for years. So 9-11 happened because A) it was too expensive, and B) it would cause a panic. Did you know the head of the FAA retired a month afterward very, very quietly?

    Jud:


  I agree with every word that you say, and with your analysis of the political corruption and self-seeking which is the engine of frustration as far as the implementation and maintanance of the advances of science are concerned, not only in the field of medical science, but in the fields of  environmental common-sense and all the rest of it.  They [the politicians and their Oil Company and Arms Industry backers] would argue [privately] that the masses are just ignorant, selfish idiots, and as long as they get cheap gas at the pumps, lowish taxes, plenty of films of the Exorcist and Rambo type to watch, while they sit in their obese millions  eating McDonald's high cholesterol products and watching the flickering images of  starving children in the third world and not  caring tuppence [2 cents] for anybody but ghastly their-fat-selves and their overweight children.

  Gary:
  The point of this is that this is the way bureaucrats and politicians think. They are the people responsible, not the scientists who create cures for rabies, etc.

    They have no time for politics, and if they interfered with a politicians program they would soon be out of work no matter what they have accomplished. Did you know that the government knew for a number of years before it became public that AIDS existed and was spreading rapidly? That even after it became public, it was almost two years before bloodin any fashion whatsoeverwas being screened for AIDS so that many people, trusting the doctors, the hospitals, and the laboratories, knew absolutely nothing about the risks of getting blood in the ER or surgery? I have seen many a mother who, after receiving a c-section, a bloody operation especially if poorly done, got blood and with it AIDS. It was never necessary. At least some preliminary screening could have been if nothing more than examining and questioning the donor. Again EL AL: their airport screening expert said on tv said that all of our buying of this expensive equipment that we do not even know for sure works reliably is essentially useless in the long run. It might catch a few people. But a much,  much better method was to examine and interview the passengers, person to person, that a human being was much better at detection than a machine. The same could have been done for blood when the first people studying the symptoms found out what it was. And precisely those people probably did say something HAS to be done and it HAS to be done NOW! But, again, A) it was too expensive to do the testing, B) the people responsible did not want to be sued by people complaining about the interviews and the concomitant prying into their private lives, and C) it would cause a panic.




  Jud:

  I go along with all this word for word.



  Gary:
  So are you really sure, considering that it is politicians, even scientists posing as politicians and have stocks in the company that is going to manufacture the

    medicine, are the real source of your information about TB, diphtheria, meningitis, polio about the truth of their claims? Remember it is NOT the scientist who discovered the cure most of the time saying this. And even when it is, it could very well be a product of positive thinking. TB is on a steep rise in the US because of A) untreated immigrants coming into the country, and 2) AIDS patients contract the disease with the greatest of ease and pass it on in an even more virulent form. Polio is also on the rise, though much slower. Meningitis still can spread like wildfire and even when diagnosed early can be very hard to treat depending on circumstances and the different varieties of the disease. And I have seen cases of diphtheria, though very, very few. Im preaching again, but at least I am reading your letters.


  Jud:
  I am supporting science and scientists, not corrupt politicians, or even base scientists/politicians who invest in companies that they know [from 'insider-dealing'] are due to be awarded lucrative government contracts. Speaking as an Englishman, I can tell you for a fact that the diseases that you mention were for all intents and purposes completely erradicated in the UK,  thanks to the efforts of medical science, and what few recent outbreaks of these diseases currently obtain are the result of cut-backs in preventative care, particularly in the area of foreign visits by our citizens to other countries, where they become infected and pass on the various germs  upon their return.  There are other sources, such as the huge tourist traffic that we have here, and the importation of foreign food and animal products etc. Again, this is NOT the fault of science - it is the fault of the onanists we have in the House of Commons, and the even more dedicated self-abusers that sit and fart brandy-fumes on the blue cushions of the House of Lords.

  Bacteria [from Beardie's point of view] have just as much right to live and multiply and thrive [and in doing so often kill their hosts] as we have.  We slaughter millions of animals and eat their dead bodies, why shouldn't these smaller versions of God's creatures consume our flesh and kill us in the process?
  God deemed it so,  and a consideration of the way he set things up as a "free for all to the death" succinctly exposes any crazy idea that humans are a special species created in the likeness of God by a loving Lord anxious to protect us against the natural processes of the world. [that we call evil pestilences.]
  It is obvious to me that if there is a God, then plainly he doesn't care two flying f----- for us, or for anything else in the universe.

  Therefore our only first line of protection against the natural things of the world, the weather, disease-producing bacteria, earthquakes, pollution, auto-crashes, train crashes, sunburn, disposal of effluent, blah, blah, blah, are the scientists, and if  belief in God is taken to stand for backwardness, ignorance and superstition, and dependance on prayer instead of injections, then every man on woman on earth owes it to themselves and the their children and their decendants to unite to remove the scourge of religion from the face of the earth.  It is time to send the mad priests and their sophisticated apologists and mullahs and Ayatollahs  packing, and the screaming evangelical thieving sex-mad maniacs who infest the media like flies on fresh  dung along with them, together with their religious wars and hatreds, their subjection of women and non-believers, and all the rest of the evil they engender. But I'm afraid that I'm preaching again, and I don't know why, for we are in general agreement on these points I think, other than the fact that certain instances of these deseases persist is the fault of science or some scientists who are in the pay of the corrupt politicians?  But the blame lies with the political/industrial establishment doesn't it - the establishment that in the USA the mainly religious electorate duly vote into power every so many years? On the idiot-scale your politicians are arguably more obvious, but over here our idiots are arguably more sinister, because they are such consumate actors, [particulary the gross, false, smiling cavorting creature that we call the Reverend Blair]

  To end on a happier note, have you heard the good news today that scientists have cracked the genetical codes of both the mosqito and the malarian virus which when the suitable drugs have been developed, will save the lives of millions.  At the moment,  one what are lugubriously refered to as: "God's children" dies every 40 seconds from malaria. Even the Nazi  Heidegger's pals couldn't acheive that hit-rate.


    Best wishes,



  Jud.

HTML VERSION:

----- Original Message -----

From: GEVANS613-AT-aol.com

To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu

Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:06 PM

Subject: Re: A SERMON

In a message dated 03/10/2002 09:11:42 GMT Daylight Time, gospode-AT-yahoo.com writes:

Subj:A SERMON
Date:03/10/2002 09:11:42 GMT Daylight Time
From:    gospode-AT-yahoo.com (Gary C. Moore)
Sender:    owner-heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Reply-to: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
To:    heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu





SECOND INSTALLMENT:
Jud:
Thankfully  for me and the rest of us, the scientist's guesses have been pretty good, for in my own lifetime I have seen many diseases conquered, diseases which even fifty years ago caused the deaths of many of my friends and family members - TB, diphtheria, meningitis, polio, - diseases which are now treatable thanks to science. I personally hope that scientists will continue their wonderful guessing and rid us of cancer and multiple sclerosis and all of the other diseases that that malevolent bearded fellow up in the sky visited upon us in a fit of peek just because some bimbo ate an apple in the so-called garden of Eden.
I think also that putting a landing capsule complete with human occupants down on the moon within a few yards of where it was supposed to go was a pretty good guess on the behalf of those American scientists.


GARY C MOORE:
I have no argument with this as far as it goes. It does seem nice and I do appreciate it. But conquered is by far too strong of a word. The US is in an utter panic now because, after numerous warnings beforehand once again, they now realize they have NOT conquered smallpox at all, that most living Americans do NOT have smallpox vaccinations, and that it is very possible smallpox could be used as a biological weapon. My main objection is not against such accomplishments in and off themselves, but is against how they are abused, how people are lied to either as to whether such diseases can ever really be conquered as we are finding out about smallpox now, that such cures and vaccinations really have eradicated the disease, etc. This is NOT the fault of the scientists that actually accomplish these things. Everything you say about that very limited group of people is perfectly true. And, on the other hand, many concerned scientists have been giving warnings for years that we are far too overconfident about these things. The problem is with the bureaucratic scientists who oversee these projects and it is they who give the greatest possible claims for what the creative scientist subordinate to him precisely accomplishes. These people are after the big bucks and have nothing whatsoever to do with benevolence toward the unwashed and ignorant masses which some of them want to get rid of anyway.

It has to do with the government bureaucrats who want people to think positively, that is, not really know the truth in the matter. It has to do with politicians who want to bask in the fame that they helped accomplish this end. They do not want anything to do with ifs, ands, or buts. Thats negative thinking. And they never considered that in the future something will happen that will expose their lies. This is what happened with 9-11 for instance. It is a downright lie to say, as Bush did, that the government had no way to anticipate that happening. People that resigned from the Federal Aviation Association did the best they could to bring this to peoples attention years ago. The Israelis and EL AL have been telling us the same thing for years. The plain, straightforward history of the last forty years should have led someone to think precisely that such an attack would occur since Muslim terrorists had become experts in hijacking planes and blowing them up. Do you remembers that news reel from the 70s of the exploding highjacked airliners at a landing place in Jordan. Those tactics failed, and they stopped doing it for a while. But any idiot could figure out that they would blow up something like the Twin Towers or the Pentagon by doing something they have done many times before: hijacking airliners. When suicide bombers became the new fad, it was absolutely inevitable something like that would happen. But in the US positive thinking prevailed. It cannot happen here. And more to the point, it would cost the air lines too much money to install protection along the same lines as EL AL has been doing for years. So 9-11 happened because A) it was too expensive, and B) it would cause a panic. Did you know the head of the FAA retired a month afterward very, very quietly?

Jud:

I agree with every word that you say, and with your analysis of the political corruption and self-seeking which is the engine of frustration as far as the implementation and maintanance of the advances of science are concerned, not only in the field of medical science, but in the fields of  environmental common-sense and all the rest of it.  They [the politicians and their Oil Company and Arms Industry backers] would argue [privately] that the masses are just ignorant, selfish idiots, and as long as they get cheap gas at the pumps, lowish taxes, plenty of films of the Exorcist and Rambo type to watch, while they sit in their obese millions  eating McDonald's high cholesterol products and watching the flickering images of  starving children in the third world and not  caring tuppence [2 cents] for anybody but ghastly their-fat-selves and their overweight children.

Gary:
The point of this is that this is the way bureaucrats and politicians think. They are the people responsible, not the scientists who create cures for rabies, etc.

They have no time for politics, and if they interfered with a politicians program they would soon be out of work no matter what they have accomplished. Did you know that the government knew for a number of years before it became public that AIDS existed and was spreading rapidly? That even after it became public, it was almost two years before bloodin any fashion whatsoeverwas being screened for AIDS so that many people, trusting the doctors, the hospitals, and the laboratories, knew absolutely nothing about the risks of getting blood in the ER or surgery? I have seen many a mother who, after receiving a c-section, a bloody operation especially if poorly done, got blood and with it AIDS. It was never necessary. At least some preliminary screening could have been if nothing more than examining and questioning the donor. Again EL AL: their airport screening expert said on tv said that all of our buying of this expensive equipment that we do not even know for sure works reliably is essentially useless in the long run. It might catch a few people. But a much,  much better method was to examine and interview the passengers, person to person, that a human being was much better at detection than a machine. The same could have been done for blood when the first people studying the symptoms found out what it was. And precisely those people probably did say something HAS to be done and it HAS to be done NOW! But, again, A) it was too expensive to do the testing, B) the people responsible did not want to be sued by people complaining about the interviews and the concomitant prying into their private lives, and C) it would cause a panic.

Jud:

I go along with all this word for word.



Gary:
So are you really sure, considering that it is politicians, even scientists posing as politicians and have stocks in the company that is going to manufacture the

medicine, are the real source of your information about TB, diphtheria, meningitis, polio about the truth of their claims? Remember it is NOT the scientist who discovered the cure most of the time saying this. And even when it is, it could very well be a product of positive thinking. TB is on a steep rise in the US because of A) untreated immigrants coming into the country, and 2) AIDS patients contract the disease with the greatest of ease and pass it on in an even more virulent form. Polio is also on the rise, though much slower. Meningitis still can spread like wildfire and even when diagnosed early can be very hard to treat depending on circumstances and the different varieties of the disease. And I have seen cases of diphtheria, though very, very few. Im preaching again, but at least I am reading your letters.

Jud:
I am supporting science and scientists, not corrupt politicians, or even base scientists/politicians who invest in companies that they know [from 'insider-dealing'] are due to be awarded lucrative government contracts. Speaking as an Englishman, I can tell you for a fact that the diseases that you mention were for all intents and purposes completely erradicated in the UK,  thanks to the efforts of medical science, and what few recent outbreaks of these diseases currently obtain are the result of cut-backs in preventative care, particularly in the area of foreign visits by our citizens to other countries, where they become infected and pass on the various germs  upon their return.  There are other sources, such as the huge tourist traffic that we have here, and the importation of foreign food and animal products etc. Again, this is NOT the fault of science - it is the fault of the onanists we have in the House of Commons, and the even more dedicated self-abusers that sit and fart brandy-fumes on the blue cushions of the House of Lords.

Bacteria [from Beardie's point of view] have just as much right to live and multiply and thrive [and in doing so often kill their hosts] as we have.  We slaughter millions of animals and eat their dead bodies, why shouldn't these smaller versions of God's creatures consume our flesh and kill us in the process?
God deemed it so,  and a consideration of the way he set things up as a "free for all to the death" succinctly exposes any crazy idea that humans are a special species created in the likeness of God by a loving Lord anxious to protect us against the natural processes of the world. [that we call evil pestilences.]
It is obvious to me that if there is a God, then plainly he doesn't care two flying f----- for us, or for anything else in the universe.

Therefore our only first line of protection against the natural things of the world, the weather, disease-producing bacteria, earthquakes, pollution, auto-crashes, train crashes, sunburn, disposal of effluent, blah, blah, blah, are the scientists, and if  belief in God is taken to stand for backwardness, ignorance and superstition, and dependance on prayer instead of injections, then every man on woman on earth owes it to themselves and the their children and their decendants to unite to remove the scourge of religion from the face of the earth.  It is time to send the mad priests and their sophisticated apologists and mullahs and Ayatollahs  packing, and the screaming evangelical thieving sex-mad maniacs who infest the media like flies on fresh  dung along with them, together with their religious wars and hatreds, their subjection of women and non-believers, and all the rest of the evil they engender. But I'm afraid that I'm preaching again, and I don't know why, for we are in general agreement on these points I think, other than the fact that certain instances of these deseases persist is the fault of science or some scientists who are in the pay of the corrupt politicians?  But the blame lies with the political/industrial establishment doesn't it - the establishment that in the USA the mainly religious electorate duly vote into power every so many years? On the idiot-scale your politicians are arguably more obvious, but over here our idiots are arguably more sinister, because they are such consumate actors, [particulary the gross, false, smiling cavorting creature that we call the Reverend Blair]

To end on a happier note, have you heard the good news today that scientists have cracked the genetical codes of both the mosqito and the malarian virus which when the suitable drugs have been developed, will save the lives of millions.  At the moment,  one what are lugubriously refered to as: "God's children" dies every 40 seconds from malaria. Even the Nazi  Heidegger's pals couldn't acheive that hit-rate.

Best wishes,

Jud.