From: "Paul Murphy" <Villanova-AT-btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: Topic
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:58:34 +0100


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.


also, no real writer sits down and deliberately pens a sonnet, or uses a spondee or a caesura and rationalises that if a piece of writing has these things then it is of necessity 'poetry'.  You might just as well end up with a turgid and unreadable piece of nonsense.  I would argue that most of the writing so constructed is nonsense, and more by accident than design are the poems written with form that actually succeed in their effects.  Again it's a question of talent, of relevance, of the market, of convention. 
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Paul Murphy
  To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
  Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:09 PM
  Subject: Re: Topic


  I think you should give examples of the forms you mention.  Without grounding those theories your discourse sounds very abstract.  Also, not just how the new  forms changed things, but why?  If you say, well they just did, or this was a radical new conception so there, I think you have to admit that this was just a new convention, a new fashion and changed nothing on any other level.  If so, I think there's no problem with writing alliterative verse since it is clearly just a choice of convention which is only really a matter of taste.  In that case one should write rap because that is the convention, not sonnets or blank verse.  Can you outline the conventions of rap? 
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jason Stuart
    To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
    Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 4:00 AM
    Subject: Re: Topic


    >you are approaching an artform from an academic standpoint. 

    As of this writing that's still legal in this country.  Convention, prosody, "academe"--I don't remember introducing those subjects.

    My main point is that your second poem is taking too much from "Lady Lazarus" and it would be good for you to read some Auden.  Whatever my approach is, it's better than being ignorant.

    >All the great writers of history just wrote.  They abosrbed the language of their day and >wrote and later on academics made up things like sonnets, dactyls and blank verse, >quantative verse and the rest. 

    "Quantitative."  And don't be ridiculous.  You sound like a sixteen-year-old.

    >academic seminar...writer's workshop

    Most academic poetry is aggressively workshopped.  Most workshopped poetry is academic.  There is no difference between the two.  That's why most of it is pretty bad.   

    Wise up,
    JS 




---
    Do you Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more

HTML VERSION:

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Murphy

To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu

Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:09 PM

Subject: Re: Topic

I think you should give examples of the forms you mention.  Without grounding those theories your discourse sounds very abstract.  Also, not just how the new  forms changed things, but why?  If you say, well they just did, or this was a radical new conception so there, I think you have to admit that this was just a new convention, a new fashion and changed nothing on any other level.  If so, I think there's no problem with writing alliterative verse since it is clearly just a choice of convention which is only really a matter of taste.  In that case one should write rap because that is the convention, not sonnets or blank verse.  Can you outline the conventions of rap? 

----- Original Message -----

From: Jason Stuart

To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu

Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 4:00 AM

Subject: Re: Topic

>you are approaching an artform from an academic standpoint. 

 

As of this writing that's still legal in this country.  Convention, prosody, "academe"--I don't remember introducing those subjects.

 

My main point is that your second poem is taking too much from "Lady Lazarus" and it would be good for you to read some Auden.  Whatever my approach is, it's better than being ignorant.

 

>All the great writers of history just wrote.  They abosrbed the language of their day and >wrote and later on academics made up things like sonnets, dactyls and blank verse, >quantative verse and the rest. 

 

"Quantitative."  And don't be ridiculous.  You sound like a sixteen-year-old.

 

>academic seminar...writer's workshop

 

Most academic poetry is aggressively workshopped.  Most workshopped poetry is academic.  There is no difference between the two.  That's why most of it is pretty bad.    

 

Wise up,

JS 

---

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more