From: "Paul Murphy" <Villanova-AT-btopenworld.com> Subject: Re: Topic Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:20:09 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. can I paste up a list of books for sale? PM ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Murphy To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 5:04 PM Subject: Re: Topic I have read WH Auden, but a long time ago. I thought he was a better writer than Eliot/Plath/Pound although some of their work would be more to my taste. Where I think he's better is in his moral and political objections, his conscientiousness, his consciousness. He undoubtedly wrote some of the greatest poems ever written. Have you any ideas on Auden? ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Murphy To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Topic also, no real writer sits down and deliberately pens a sonnet, or uses a spondee or a caesura and rationalises that if a piece of writing has these things then it is of necessity 'poetry'. You might just as well end up with a turgid and unreadable piece of nonsense. I would argue that most of the writing so constructed is nonsense, and more by accident than design are the poems written with form that actually succeed in their effects. Again it's a question of talent, of relevance, of the market, of convention. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Murphy To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:09 PM Subject: Re: Topic I think you should give examples of the forms you mention. Without grounding those theories your discourse sounds very abstract. Also, not just how the new forms changed things, but why? If you say, well they just did, or this was a radical new conception so there, I think you have to admit that this was just a new convention, a new fashion and changed nothing on any other level. If so, I think there's no problem with writing alliterative verse since it is clearly just a choice of convention which is only really a matter of taste. In that case one should write rap because that is the convention, not sonnets or blank verse. Can you outline the conventions of rap? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason Stuart To: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 4:00 AM Subject: Re: Topic >you are approaching an artform from an academic standpoint. As of this writing that's still legal in this country. Convention, prosody, "academe"--I don't remember introducing those subjects. My main point is that your second poem is taking too much from "Lady Lazarus" and it would be good for you to read some Auden. Whatever my approach is, it's better than being ignorant. >All the great writers of history just wrote. They abosrbed the language of their day and >wrote and later on academics made up things like sonnets, dactyls and blank verse, >quantative verse and the rest. "Quantitative." And don't be ridiculous. You sound like a sixteen-year-old. >academic seminar...writer's workshop Most academic poetry is aggressively workshopped. Most workshopped poetry is academic. There is no difference between the two. That's why most of it is pretty bad. Wise up, JS ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more
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--- from list heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu -------- Original Message -----From: Paul MurphySent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 5:04 PMSubject: Re: TopicI have read WH Auden, but a long time ago. I thought he was a better writer than Eliot/Plath/Pound although some of their work would be more to my taste. Where I think he's better is in his moral and political objections, his conscientiousness, his consciousness. He undoubtedly wrote some of the greatest poems ever written. Have you any ideas on Auden?----- Original Message -----From: Paul MurphySent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 4:58 PMSubject: Re: Topicalso, no real writer sits down and deliberately pens a sonnet, or uses a spondee or a caesura and rationalises that if a piece of writing has these things then it is of necessity 'poetry'. You might just as well end up with a turgid and unreadable piece of nonsense. I would argue that most of the writing so constructed is nonsense, and more by accident than design are the poems written with form that actually succeed in their effects. Again it's a question of talent, of relevance, of the market, of convention.----- Original Message -----From: Paul MurphySent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:09 PMSubject: Re: TopicI think you should give examples of the forms you mention. Without grounding those theories your discourse sounds very abstract. Also, not just how the new forms changed things, but why? If you say, well they just did, or this was a radical new conception so there, I think you have to admit that this was just a new convention, a new fashion and changed nothing on any other level. If so, I think there's no problem with writing alliterative verse since it is clearly just a choice of convention which is only really a matter of taste. In that case one should write rap because that is the convention, not sonnets or blank verse. Can you outline the conventions of rap?----- Original Message -----From: Jason StuartSent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 4:00 AMSubject: Re: Topic>you are approaching an artform from an academic standpoint.As of this writing that's still legal in this country. Convention, prosody, "academe"--I don't remember introducing those subjects.My main point is that your second poem is taking too much from "Lady Lazarus" and it would be good for you to read some Auden. Whatever my approach is, it's better than being ignorant.>All the great writers of history just wrote. They abosrbed the language of their day and >wrote and later on academics made up things like sonnets, dactyls and blank verse, >quantative verse and the rest."Quantitative." And don't be ridiculous. You sound like a sixteen-year-old.>academic seminar...writer's workshopMost academic poetry is aggressively workshopped. Most workshopped poetry is academic. There is no difference between the two. That's why most of it is pretty bad.Wise up,JS
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