From: GEVANS613-AT-aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:26:57 EDT
Subject: Re: Dead Man Drinking



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In a message dated 08/04/2003 13:51:27 GMT Daylight Time, 
michael-AT-sandwich-de-sign.co.uk writes:


> 
> 
> Jud quoting MichaelE in a discussion concerning the being of images:
> >> >>> 
>>> 
>> > Being in a field with a cow is certainly different from watching a cow 
>> in a 
>> > field on TV, but  in both cases it is the cow itself that is present.
>> 
>> 
> goes on to say:
> 
> >> Well, well, well. Old Nietszche said that "God is dead," but after 
>> reading the above tripe 
>> surely Mr. Midshipman Metaphysics can finally be pronounced dead too - or 
>> at least committed to the asylum, 
>> or signed as the crew's bum-boy on the Ship of Fools? (S.S.Ontology.) 
>> 
>> Are we to believe that our TV sets act as matter-portals 
>> for the transportation of cows from the field into my living room? 
>> 
>> 
> Ha. I think it is clear (given the context of the conversation Jud has 
> joined) that Michael's "cow itself" is present in the form of an image and 
> not as the 'cow-matter' of Jud. For the cow to be present as matter the cow 
> would/might need to be dead/injured/interfered-with because the only way to 
> actually see (and not just believe or pontificate) the cow as matter is for 
> it to be present(ed) as chemicals etc, and the only way the cow can be 
> viewed as such is for it to be dissected/analysed etc... and even if were 
> not killed/injured for that purpose it would still not be the same cow if 
> 'examined' as a mass of chemical-matter, it would not be the (same) cow 
> grazing in the field that the conversation was about (which was comparing 
> the cow in the field with the televised image of the cow in the field). My 
> argument with MichaelE concerns the ontological status of an image and 
> whether the cow could present itself without any prior re-presentation 
> (imagery, opinion, point-of-view, vested-interest, angle, concept, etc); 
> i.e., we were discussing the status of _doxa_ and the possibilities of a 
> cleavage (as I am suggesting) in presence especially given the omnipresence 
> of the technological casting of beings (say, as evidenced in/through TV and 
> the internet), especially since that has been of issue given the carpet 
> televisual reportage of the current war. And the genuine question is a 
> fundamental and extensive one since it is possible to see all human (and 
> presumably, non-human) 'culture(s)' as founded upon the tele-, the bringing 
> of remote, absent and anticipated beings into presence. And surely, this is 
> a far cry from Jud's foolish (and literal-minded) interpretation. I would 
> offer to help clean up the mess on Jud's carpet but, of course, he made it 
> (up) himself :-)
> 
> Regards
> 
> michaelP
> >> 
>> 

Jud:
In the field there is a cow. There is a cow in the field.  A cow is present 
in the field. As Jason would correctly point out the word "present" is 
redundant, for it existentialises the cow needlessly for a second time, and 
the sentence would mean just the same regarding the relative spatial 
positionality of the cow if one omitted the word "present" all together. The 
Doc Eldred piece was of course  an example of the "lazy writing" which Rene 
rightly rails against as bringing Heideggerianism into disrepute.

The is no "ontic" or "ontological" existentialisation in relation to actual 
or real entities which exist in the world, those are just terms from a "Let's 
Pretend" philosophy, where the pretenders, [transcendentalists,] employ 
"Blunderspeak" to describe aspects of the things which they pretend about. 

(Let's pretend there's a thing called "Dasein" - Hegel used it - why not us?  
We will take as representing human beings and their "Being." 
Let's further pretend that: blah, blah, blah...Agreed?")

There is no: "omnipresence of the technological casting of beings, " but 
rather a round-the-clock continuance of the technological broadcasting by TV 
companies of the images of entities.  The broadcasting of the "presence"  or "
omnipresence" or the  "Being" of entities is not possible - because they do 
not exist to be broadcast, being no more than Heideggerian fantasies from the 
toy-cupboard of the  Let's Pretend World in which they live out their 
angst-ridden lives.

A cow, which comprises of matter, (matter meaning that which has mass and 
occupies space,) does not need to be dead or injured or otherwise dissected 
or affected  in order to be observed in the form of  a living cow, any more 
than it would be necessary for Michael of Sandwich to be similarly treated in 
order to be seen and conversed with, and (say in the bar of the Queen's Arms) 
be bought a drink, for entities comprising of matter are constituted as 
entitic singularities comprising of  conglomerations of matter in various 
forms. The material which is collectivised and constituted as that which is 
the referent of the name "Michael" exists in the modality of "being alive" 
and can be looked at, talked to, and bought a drink in the Queen's Arms.
In the case of the cow and Michael, these materialistic forms do not need to 
be lifeless (though they can be)  in order  for them to be present in a given 
spatial position, although if Michael were (sadly) to be dead, it may well be 
thought strange for me to attempt to buy him a drink in the Queen's Arms, 
unless that is Michael were to have been  Irish and it was his wake. I have 
in my youth, personally witnessed a dead-man being propped up against the bar 
of a Liverpool pub at his wake and a drink placed before him. I also saw a 
dead-man propped up against a lamp-post and left  for a time by the 
revellers, who then brought a drink out of the pub and put the glass to his 
lips.  Happy days.
> 
Cheers,

Jud.

<A HREF="http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/ ">http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/</A> 
Jud Evans - ANALYTICAL INDICANT THEORY.
<A HREF="http://uncouplingthecopula.freewebspace.com">http://uncouplingthecopula.freewebspace.com</A>

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