From: "John Foster" <borealis-AT-mercuryspeed.com>
Subject: Re: Anxiety is about nothing...whatsoever, was distortions
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:18:45 -0700




Anthony:
> Ontological existentials having "factical components"? You are just
throwing
> around jargon without knowing what the hell you are talking about. Yes,
> mitsein is equiprimordial with being-in, which means precisely that there
> can be no factical being-in-the-world which is no mitsein or being-in.
None.
> Zilch. Zero. Nada.

You know Anthony I am getting a bit tired of your verbal abuse. So I am
going to end this discussion with you right here and now. I am no longer
going to discuss Heidegger with you.

chao

John




>
> > > There is nothing incompatible between factical dis-harmony (such as
war
> >or
> > > murder) and authenticity. Again, look at what the Nazis did.
> >
> >Sure there is. Of interest is the fact that only Jews who had an ancestor
> >born before a specific date were considered legal Jews for the purposes
of
> >incarceration and disposal. Hitler himself was a descendent of a Jewish
> >Granfather. The lack of understanding is also obvious since the
destruction
> >of the German Jew was 'fratricide' and arose from a fundamental
> >'misunderstanding'.
>
> Oh, you mean that this particular projection upon Dasein's potentiality
for
> being was not a projection upon Dasein's potentiality for being? Because
> that the absurdity you would have to maintain if you say that this is a
lack
> of understanding in the ontological sense.
>
> > > Oh John you are using Heidegger's terms so loosely! Understanding, in
> >the
> > > ontological sense, is the condition for ANY factical
being-in-the-world,
> > > including being at war. Understanding is simply projection upon
Dasein's
> >own
> > > authentic potentiality for being.
> >
> >Dasein 'falls' in confrontation withe the factical, with the given
> >historical situation. Thus Dasein, is authenticated only when the
factical
> >'collapses' or rather when 'being-in-the-world' collapses (which means
that
> >entities, the objective reality become insignificant). We have covered
this
> >aspect well. Dasein does not collapse but rather 'falls'.
>
> John, Dasein falls INTO the factical world, which is precisely what
> collapses in anxiety. SO FALLING AND ANXIETY ARE IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS
> JOHN! You have absolutely no inkling of the jargon you are using!
>
> >Understanding is a need
> >initially to discover 'possible-being' which is in contrast to the
> >tranquillized acceptance of the world as it is, as distinct historical
> >situation, of the 'disowned' self, aquiesed in the 'public they'....
>
> Um, both tranquillized Dasein and authentic Dasein presuppose ontological
> understanding, because BOTH ARE PROJECTION UPON POTENTIALITY FOR BEING
JOHN!
> You have absolutely NO idea what you are saying!
>
> >  >So it is nonsensical to say that Dasein
> > > can misunderstand in the ONTOLOGICAL sense - just as nonsensical as
> >saying
> > > that it is possible for Dasein to not be-with-Others, ever.
> >
> >No. This is what you say.
>
> "On the contrary, any Dasein has, as Dasein, already projected itself; and
> as long as it is, it is projecting. As long as it is, Dasein always has
> understood itself and always will understand itself in terms of
> possibilities." (SuZ 145)
>
> Sorry John.
>
> >What I said was that understanding cannot project
> >spontaneouly from Da-sein himself, unless there is a need. That need
arises
> >during anxiety. Anxiety or dread therefore 'individuates' the authentic
> >self; afterall,  in the everyday experience of the 'disowned' self, there
> >is
> >no need to understand;
>
> "Understanding is either authentic, arising out of one's own Self as such,
> or inauthentic." (SuZ 146)
>
> Sorry John.
>
> >Typified by the 'everyday' inauthenticity
> >is a sense of living in the 'innerworldly' now of 'ready to hand' and
> >'presence to hand' [objective reality, and ready handiness of equipment,
> >language, et cetera]. None of these 'comportments' belong to the
'authentic
> >self'...
>
> But they all presuppose understanding in the ontological sense.
>
> >There is no object for anxiety other than possibility of the 'owned'
self.
> >The self and world are placed into question by dread. While the other
> >ontological-existentials 'collapse', the feeling of 'not being at home'
> >arises during dread. Dread has no object because it is a mood, and moods
> >are
> >not 'comprehensions' about the external world,
>
> Oh dear you really have no idea about the words you are using, do you?
FEAR
> IS A MOOD JOHN! FEAR HAS SOMETHING IN THE WORLD AS ITS OBJECT JOHN! THE
SKY
> IS BLUE JOHN!
>
> >Da-sein would still exist without dread, but it would not be 'self-owned'
> >since it would be absorbed into the public they, the fallen world of the
> >historical situation where nothing is questioned, and understanding could
> >not arise. For instance, the invention of the wheel probably arose during
> >anxiety, during the mood or feeling of 'not-at-home' due to the great
> >effort
> >and frustration of being subject to the backpack and grasping style of
> >transportation.
>
> ???????????????
> ???????????????????
> ??????????????????
> ?????????????????????
>
> >The way to see this is that prior to the wheel becoming
> >'ready to hand' something else was ready to hand; and as long as this
> >something else, a 'travois' for instance worked, there was no
understanding
> >of the wheel. Thinking and authenticity arise when through dread someone
> >thinks, "yes may it be possible that...this round object would work."
>
> ??????????????????
> ???????????????????
> ??????????????
> ????????????????????
>
> Rene, Malcolm, do you really want to be associated with this?
>
> >Of
> >course this is  simplified rendition of the existentialist project for
> >Heidegger because in BT we are exposed to the modalized froms of care, et
> >cetera. The analogy is important here to because of Da-sein's throwness.
>
> Your rendition is not merely simplified. To say that the invention of the
> wheel probably occurred during anxiety, in the present Heideggerian
context
> of our discussion, is purely and simply a mis-rendition.
>
> Anthony Crifasi
>
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