File spoon-archives/heidegger.archive/heidegger_2003/heidegger.0307, message 99


From: GEVANS613-AT-aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:56:44 EDT
Subject: Devastating Confusion of Heidegger?


In a message dated 18/07/2003 22:06:58 GMT Daylight Time, crifasi-AT-hotmail.com 
writes:

Subj: Re: devastating page on Husserl? Date: 18/07/2003 22:06:58 GMT Daylight 
Time From: crifasi-AT-hotmail.com (Anthony Crifasi) Sender: 
owner-heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu Reply-to: heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu To: 
heidegger-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu

Jud wrote:
How does he say that the phenomena are most familiar to us? Insofar as we are 
absorbed and interested in them, not in the detached mode of knowing or 
science.

Jud: [previously]
This it seems to me is an ill-thought out wild generalisation on Heidegger's 
behalf, for not all scientists adopt the same degree of detachment in their 
modes of knowing entities/phenomena, etc. Many scientists are UTTERLY absorbed 
and INTENSELY interested in the subjects of their study, and often feel a 
strong personal ATTACHMENT, some to the extent that the phenomena under 
investigation take on an obsessional nature for them.

Anthony:
You are misunderstanding, he does not mean that a scientist cannot be 
passionate about what they are studying. He means that passion does not constitute 
any part of the actual scientific experiment or result, even if passion 
motivated the scientist to do the experiment in the first place. In other words, when 
a scientist properly documents an experiment and its results, he or she only 
describes objective observations or possible hypothesis. 

Jud: 
Ok. forget the passion bit - [I'll come back to that later]  that leaves us 
with the scientists who are UTTERLY absorbed and INTENSELY interested in the 
subjects of their study bit - what about that? 
Surely the absorption and interest of scientists in the phenomena which are 
most familiar to them, qualifies to correspond with the phenomenologists being 
absorbed and interested in the phenomena which are most familiar to them? 

What's the difference?  

Are phenomenologists allowed passion in their observations where it is 
forbidden to scientists? If so why?
What would you say to Sir Howard Carter as he knocked out the last brick in 
King Tut's tomb?  'Calm down Howard - it's only a scientific exercise.'
Or, 'So OK you've cracked the human DNA code, you've put men on the moon - 
what's the big deal? Be more detached!'

When we talk of science we talk of scientists - 'science' doesn't carry out 
the experiments - SCIENTISTS DO. [caps for emphasis only] Science doesn't exist.

it's just a word we use to describe the activity of scientists.
Their interest breeds excitement - they get enthusiastic, and their interest 
and enthusiasm may well result in a continuance of their observations in spite 
of early setbacks, so that the result - when it comes can be attributed to 
their interest in the phenomena and their passion to see a result. In that way 
not only do these aspects affect the result, but in the absence of their 
interest there wouldn't even BE a result.

So if Heidegger says that passion and interest and involvement in the 
experimental process does not constitute any part of an actual scientific experiment 
or result, even if passion motivated the scientist to do the experiment in the 
first place, well he is living in cloud cuckooland, for I can think of 
hundreds of instances of total commitment and burning interest and concentration on 
the artefacts under observation on the behalf of the scientific investigators, 
[Marie Curie for example] as being the main element which produced a result - 
where other less committed investigators would have given up. The answer 
probably lies in Heidegger's weird and childlike belief that there exists 
something called SCIENCE, which presumably puts a white coat on and lights the flames 
beneath Bunsen Burners on the benches of the world laboratories, and writes 
the scientific text books by way of some ectoplasmic automatic writing - and 
attends conferences and seminars? Its just another instance of his absurd 
reification of human activity on a mass scale like Dasein is an instance of his 
absurd reification of human activity on an individuate scale - the man was 
obsessional about turning action-words into thing-words. There is no such thing exists 
in the whole cosmos as 'dancing,' but only the dancers can be found - there 
is no such thing exists in the whole cosmos as 'science' there is only the 
scientists to be found, and there is no such thing exists in the whole cosmos as 
'philosophy,' but only philosophers can be found philosophising. ,

Anthony: 
Personal feelings are scientifically irrelevant, though they may be 
motivationally relevant. 
That is what it means to say that scientists are "detached," not that they 
are unmotivated or dispassionate about their subjects, but that the actual 
scientific method and its results are supposed to be totally objective and not 
"tainted" by the scientists' personal feelings. An experiment should be able to be 
reproduced by anyone, regardless of how passionate they are.

Jud: 
But most scientists are not the least 'detached'  [scientists are human 
beings too] but on the contrary highly involved - so much so are some involved that 
they have been known to falsify their 'detached' results, [like H falsified 
his Greek 'translations,' such as Phusis=Being etc.nudge-nudge - wink-wink and 
chase me Charlie,]  in order that those results will prove what they wish them 
to prove.

Bottom line? Surely this is no more than one of Heidegger's typically 
transparent transylvanian word-games, where his critique of the scientific method is 
just an excuse for loosing off spiteful barbs at his erstwhile, [later 
locked-out and keyless] mentor?


Cheers,

Jud.



<A HREF="http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/ ">http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/</A> 
Jud Evans - ANALYTICAL INDICANT THEORY.
<A HREF="http://uncouplingthecopula.freewebspace.com">http://uncouplingthecopula.freewebspace.com</A>


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