Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 14:44:43 -0700
From: Lisa Rogers <eqwq.lrogers-AT-state.ut.us>
Subject:  Hans Despain's argument in favor of 2 lists -Reply


From: "Hans Despain" <DESPAIN-AT-econ.sbs.utah.edu>
"Marxism begs a second list.  These lists of course can interact, but
 there should be a list that exists for those that do not necessarily
 subscr*be to Stalinism, Maoism, etc..."

Lisa says: please note that in the marxism info sheet there is and
always has been a statement that "being a marxist is not required." 
This principle has been and is being violated frequent, lengthy and
mean-spirited verbal attacks on any statement or topic that some do
not consider "marxist", not properly marxist, not orthodoxy, or
correct, or revolutionary, etc.  In my opinion, this does not allow
any room for exploration or experimentation which I believe that
Spoon wants to support, and that I know I want to participate in.

What has happened, I think, is that far too many people take a look
at the name "marxism" and then demand that the content of the list
and everyone's "positions" be in accord with _their_ definition of
"marxism".  Thus we get "the essence of marxism is revolution",
therefore any talk that _they_ don't consider "revolutionary" is not
"marxist" or "counter-revolutionary".

I _agree_ with you Hans, that "there should be a list that exists for
those that do not necessarily  subscr*be to Stalinism, Maoism,
etc..."  The <marxism> list does not appear to be that place.  Rather
than try to change that kind of culture that has built up there,
which I believe that I did my best to combat, I agree to start up
another list.

"It would be best to have two lists, attempting to keep these
factions  seperate, but able to communicate..."

Lisa:  I agree.  I only ask that in order to post to marxism2, one
need subscribe to it, and that if one is harrassing and disrupting,
that marxism2 is allowed to defend itself by unsubbing one.  This
method is what I understand as the best available technical method
for maximizing openness and non-control, while still allowing self
defense. 

"We must understand that there exist Marxists that believe that
theory  is complete and only the revolution remains to be
accomplished.  What  is wrong with them attempting to convince others
on this conviction?"  

Lisa:  Nothing, except that they should not be allowed to repeatedly
force themselves upon the unwilling.  Marxism2 will be allowed to put
up a "no missionaries" sign to those who prove themselves unwilling
to respect others unwillingness to be converted.