File spoon-archives/lyotard.archive/lyotard_1997/lyotard.9712, message 13


Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 20:27:07 -0800
From: hugh bone <hughbone-AT-worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: wittgenstein, lyotard, foucault


jon roffe wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> thanks for the interesting and enlightening responses to my posts on
> Wittgenstein and Foucault.  I decided to spend some time thinking about
> what to write rather than just shooting from the hip, hence my late
> response.
> 
> First of all, Eric, thanks for the info re Schopenhauer.  I've never
> read very widely the secondary material on Wittgenstein, and the
> Tractatus is not my favourite of his works, so I must plead ignorance
> here, and be thankful for the help.  I'll check out that book you
> suggested.
> 
> >Would you still concur with me on the basic point I was attempting to
> mak> >e in
> >my previous post?  I was really arguing for the following.   Although
> >Wittgenstein himself was somewhat naive concerning power structures,
> when> > his
> >philosophy is modified along these lines by Lyotard, Foucault, and,
> yes, > >even
> >old Zarathustra,  it becomes possible to develop it in new ways which
> nei> >ther
> >Wittgenstein nor the entire British school of analytical philosophy
> ever
> >envisioned.  It can now become the basis of a radical social critique;
> on> >e in
> >which the Differend plays a significant role.
> 
> After some thought, a response:  It seems to me that Wittgenstein's
> 'later' philosophy is dissimilar to both what is sometimes glibly called
> 'Continental' thought, and to the British tradition that is referred to
> above.  Essentially, it is not about establishing anything, or arguing
> for anything, but about making the philosopher more sensitive to the
> problems that seem non-problemmatic, or remain invisible most of the
> time.  It is about making thought more agile, more creative.  I don't
> think (but I stand to be corrected) Wittgenstein is trying to establish
> anything.  Thus, his focus on language could be seen as an expression of
> this philosophical interest, rather than the bottom line in his thought.
> 
> >I hope this helps us return to our discussion of the Differend and to
> ask
> >again the old questions in even more radical ways =93What is
> philosophy?
> 
> Yes, precisely!  This is why I find Lyotard's use of Wittgenstein
> exciting.  And here's where I find the link between Foucault and
> Wittgenstein illuminating.  Foucault says that philosophy is "the
> critical activity of thought upon itself" - much the same as how I
> conceive of Wittgenstein's thought.  And here, too, we find a place for
> language _and_ power.  Wittgenstein shows how language is trickery.  The
> issues of power, interest and inequality are never broached.  But
> Foucault offers a way of bringing these things together, as does
> Lyotard.
> 
> However, to take up a point Hugh made, I don't think Foucault simply
> offers interesting ways of analysing power.  In fact, what he offers is
> a critique of the dominant understandings of power that we have from
> both Marx and Weber.  

Power, according to Foucault, is not oppressive,
> but essentially creative and constructive. 
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

REPLY:  I've read Foucault on power being creative and constructive,
and so it is for the oppressor. It's years ago, but I read
those passsages as truth plus irony.  Foucault was great on diagnostics;
he showed little concern for remedies.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& 

So, for me, the differend
> becomes a powerful tool in coming to terms with some of the features of
> the unequal 'ontology of the present'.

 
> I hope both that this mail doesn't stray too far off the path, and that
> it makes sense.  Thanks for the great discussion.
> 
> Jon Roffe
> 
> P.S. does anyone else on this list live in Australia?  It would be
> interesting to discuss the differend that is currently being played
> large in the national political arena re indigenous people's land
> rights.
> 
> Another thought:  what differends are operating within this mailing
> list?
> 
> ______________________________________________________
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