File spoon-archives/lyotard.archive/lyotard_2001/lyotard.0104, message 53


Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:25:51 -0400
From: hugh bone <hbone-AT-optonline.net>
Subject: Re: The differance that makes a difference


Eric,

Beginning at the end you your message - expansion might help with
agreement/disagreement.

Henry George wrote a very interesting book, but what he wrote, or
Marx wrote, or Lyotard wrote, seems to have little relevance to
the concentration of wealth and economic power which favors  illegal
immigration, exploitation of health care, intellectual property that
prevents competition etc. ad nauseum.

The Greens, and others, have brought attention to the fact that wild species
must have access to a supportive natural environment or they perish.  Humans
were no exception.  Fighting for territory was perhaps the origin of
property rights.

A partial, but inadequate substitute for property rights is labor rights. A
few decades ago labor rights included health insurance,
safety in the workplace etc., and significant labor laws were passed and
enforced.

With globalization, export of jobs, the advent of agribusiness, superstores,
small farms and properties were absorbed by giant industry.  Electronics,
clothing, many automobiles and other products were manufactured abroad.

As I've written before, Marxist state capitalism as a substitute for
free market capitalism, produced fabulous failures.

Free market capitalism, the ideology of the Industrial Revolution,
produced terrible abuses of workers in England which are now being
re-enacted in third world countries around the globe.

A gradual and peaceful transfer of property to the individuals who use is a
utopian dream, but if there is some better way to give populations better
lives,better control of their lives, I would like to hear about it.

thanks for your detailed reply,
Hugh
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


> hugh:
>
> comments upon your comments
> >
>
>
> **Norbert Weiner wrote his  "Cybernetics" book soon after WWII.  I don't
> >think either he or von Neuman applied it to organisms.**
> > >
>
> Yes, you are absolutely right here. I conflated von Neumann with Weiner
> here. Weiner gets credit for developing cybernetics. However, von
> Neumann also developed the idea of self-reproducing machines and is
> still connected to the topic discussed here.
>
> My copy of "The Human Use of Human Beings" disappeared eons ago, but I
> still remember the definition of cybernetics as being concerned with
> control and communication in animal and machine.  The whole point of
> cybernetics lies in the symmetry between the two.  It isn't concerned
> with computers alone.
>
> Who will control the data banks is perhaps the central metaphysical
> question par excellence that Lyotard raises.
> > **If memory serves, this is in "The Postmodern Condition"**
>
> Yes, you are correct. Sorry if I made it appear that I thought this was
> in "The Differend".  My point is that this is an important questions and
> Lyotard approaches in various texts in various ways, even in "The
> Inhuman" which Steve has been discussing lately.
>
> **I would say it's more a matter of  1)who owns a country's natural
> resources, real estate, and means of production, and 2) how effectively
> owners of a country control the legislature, courts, and government
> agencies who determine the terms of employment and the taxes workers
> must pay for the privilege of using others' property to earn a living.**
>
> Reading this, it struck me - have you been arguing along the line of
> Henry George for a single tax on property?  Is this the political angle
> you are working from?  Or am I just conflating again?
>
> The counterstrategy on the part of labor is not simply to resist, but to
> develop new organizations of information that elude such control by
> continuosly proliferating multiple centers that elide and envelop the
> existing forms of control.
>  **For instance?**
>
> Here is just one elementary example. Many employees now have access to
> the internet, but bosses are concerned that they may be accessing sites
> not related to business.  But where does one draw the line.  Does
> another company which allows employees such freedom enjoy a competitive
> edge because employees become better informed and better motivated?  How
> does a manager respond?
>
> Also, companies invest in programs that block pornography. However,
> suppose a company is sponsering a race against breast cancer and one of
> the employees cannot access a site for information to put into a pamplet
> because the software blocks any mention of the word "breast".  Again,
> how does a manager respond?
>
>  **Too much in one mouthful.**
>  **Much too much**
>
> Do you disagree or merely think the content needs to be expanded?
>
>
>



   

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