Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 16:53:36 -0400
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Weeping in a Rolls-Royce]


Steve and All,

Nothing much to quarrel about in your version of history, although I would
point out that in U.S. households as well as in Europe, a great many women
went back to work after the children were through school.  It still happens,
but as I noted, three quarters of U.S. families are single moms and pops.
Don't know the statistics for
countries in Europe.

My contention that Corporations, in the U.S., with temps and outsourcing,
often manage to avoid paying for health insurance,  vacations, holidays, or
other time off,  is based on the experience of people I know, but is also
highlighted in the movie and book I referenced.

Best,
Hugh

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Interesting notes but they seem to me to be from a place outside of the
world I
> inhabit.
>
> The following points towards that place....
>
> The status of working people, refugees and associated immigrants is no
different
> than in previous periods. Perhaps in some ways it may be considered better
> think of the late 19th C or early 20th C and the obligatory racism of the
> dominant cultures which culminated in the mass exterminations of the
1940s, how
> many popular novels written at that time considered the complete
extermination,
> mass murder of the non-white races? (a genre that reappears in US science
> fiction writers and in British conservative thriller writers) I suspect
that in
> the Anglo-Saxon world alone its closer to hundreds rather than dozens. The
> eugenic manipulation of people according to theories around gender, class,
race
> etc was accepted as a normal discourse. The theories of supremacy were not
> simply espoused by right wing fascists and pro-capitalists but also by
liberal
> humanists and the occasional misguided leftist. What was an acceptable
discourse
> has changed. The mass experiments on the bodies of the working class,
women,
> soldiers, criminals and race etc has become much more difficult to justify
and
> carry out. Except of course on US popular tv shows that endlessly appear
on
> cable tv and serve as popular warnings on the excesses of global
corporations
> and their problematic relations to the state. Being US/American
individuals may
> fight back but they may not fight back collectively. With regard to the
> refugee/immigrant issue, working hours and the problematic relations to
the new
> host culture Id suggest that the issues referred to below are similar to
> Sennett and Cobbs Hidden injuries of class (66 and 72)  what is especially
> interesting in the book is the number of working class first generation
> immigrants into the USA that are interviewed and used as representatives
of a
> discontinuous working class. (Odd how they failed to recognise the now
commonly
> recognised shift to right of the immigrent). In these post-modern days wed
be
> more suspicious of the notion that a potentially unified class could ever
have
> possibly existed given the evidence for difference and discontinuity that
is
> produced. The issue that surfaces however is that the nature of the work
that
> the characters carried out is as manual, brutish, repetitious and occupies
as
> many hours of their lives as the contemporary equivalents, the
> refugees/immigrants of the 21st C, except of course the nature of the work
has
> changed.
>
> Additionally I believe it is important to recognise the impact of feminism
on
> the discussions of status  the question posed was effectively how is it
> possible to be equal without your own income  In effect the post-war
efforts
> to send women back into the home were accepted during the 50s and early
60s to
> be soundly rejected during the subsequent periods. Only in US TV shows and
> Hollywood movies are women continuously chained to the home, as if the
logical
> statement of get married, have children must result in dont have any
> economic independence and stay at home to be isolated with the kids
(personally
> Id like them censored as forms of kitchen sink pornography). Actually what
> always happened to working class women (in Europe) was get married, have
> children return to work because they had to if they were to survive at all
> reasonably, there has been a growth in womens average income  but of
course
> not sufficient but significant. It will require ongoing state
interference,
> which will be led in Europe from the left parties for this to be radically
> improved. An additional goalwill be the lowering of the allowable working
time
> to 30 hours a week. Real wages have changed and risen in the last 100
years in
> Europe, but of course insufficiently, this is the result of the existence
of
> higher expectations of the state in the post war years, resulting from the
> existence of socialist governments, Western Marxist parties, general
economic
> growth and of course feminism and gay politics.
>
> The free entry of refugees into the western states is the ideal to aim for
>
> enough and regards
>
> sdv
>
> hugh bone wrote:
>
> > Steve and All,
> >
> > This link takes you to an excerpt from Barbara Ehrenreich's book,
> > "Nickled and Dimed".  She is a nationally recognized writer,  a woman in
her
> > sixties, who took various low-paid jobs a few years ago, and relates her
> > experiences in this book.
> >
> > Couples who both work, and earn average or better than average pay, and
have
> > children in school, or pre-school, must often work more than 80 hrs. per
> > week to hold their jobs.  Real wages have changed little in 20 years,
but
> > the cost of living has increased a great deal.
> >
> > Parents of today's baby boomers, in the post-WWII era of strong unions,
> > could often live on a single income, get medical care without the
> > obstruction and costs of HMO's.  However,
> > nuclear families have dwindled to 23.5% according to the 2000 census,
and
> > they may fare better than the majority of families of single moms and
single
> > pops.
> >
> > An influx of millions of illegal aliens who work "off-the-books", and
the
> > export of most U.S clothing factories to $1 a day, countries of the
third
> > world, are factors which increase the competition for decent jobs, and
keep
> > wages low.
> >
> > HB
> >
> >
http://www.findarticles.com/m1111/1784_298/53530961/p22/article.jhtml?cf=0
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Steve wrote:
> >
> > > All
> > >
> > > I was interested in this email (from sciene as culture list) because
of
> > the
> > > extraordinay claims that we are working more now than in the 1960s. I
feel
> > deeply
> > > suspicious of this claim. My suspicions are founded on the distrust I
feel
> > for
> > > people who suggest things are worse now than they were for our parents
and
> > > grandparents - this level of pessimism always makes me want to
scrutinise
> > their
> > > evidence. On a personal basis however I remember my father working
> > standard 6 day
> > > weeks and occasionally 7 days - in addition he only had two weeks
holiday.
> > His
> > > father worked the same regime but only one weeks unpaid holiday a
year. To
> > claim
> > > that a 21st worker is working longer hours than our forefathers is I
> > suspect to
> > > massage the evidence in unacceptable ways.
> > >
> > > Compare these hours to myself - I never work weekends without days off
in
> > leiu-
> > > 25days holiday a year, have a standard 37.5 hours working week and
work
> > probably 45
> > > hours and sometimes 50 hrs a week if travelling to the USA on
business..
> > These are
> > > not unsual working hours -
> > >
> > > It is true however that working time directives are essential -
standard
> > 30 hour
> > > weeks - preferably over 4 days... are a desirable and achievable goal.
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > sdv
> > >
> > > Ian Pitchford wrote:
> > >
> > > > NEW STATESMAN
> > > > Book Reviews - Weeping in a Rolls-Royce
> > > >
> > > > Book Reviews
> > > > Christopher Gasson Monday 28th May 2001
> > > >
> > > > Blood, Sweat and Tears: the evolution of work
> > > > Richard Donkin Texere, 400pp, 18.99
> > > > ISBN 1587990768
> > > >
> > > > It is difficult not to feel a sense of betrayal about technological
> > progress.
> > > > We have invented machines to do work for us, but the more ingenious
our
> > > > inventions, the harder we find ourselves working. We have exchanged
40
> > hours of
> > > > slavery in a soot-covered factory for a 70-hour week chained within
the
> > > > granite-faced confines of the giants of the new global service
economy.
> > The
> > > > average American now works one month a year longer than he or she
did in
> > the
> > > > 1960s. Britons, similarly, seem to be increasingly choosing work
over
> > leisure.
> > > >
> > > > As Richard Donkin makes clear in his broad history of work, Blood,
Sweat
> > and
> > > > Tears, we have only ourselves to blame for so readily giving up our
> > lives to
> > > > our employers. It is a combination of our desires always staying one
> > step ahead
> > > > of our ability to afford them, our psychological need to define
> > ourselves by
> > > > our work, and an immutable work ethic, that continues to drive us
long
> > after
> > > > the religion that spawned it ceased to be relevant.
> > > >
> > > > Full text:
> > > > http://www.newstatesman.co.uk/200105280050.htm
> > > >
> > > > To view archive/subscribe/unsubscribe/select DIGEST go to
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radical-science
> > > >
> > > > Read The Human Nature Daily Review every day
> > > > http://human-nature.com/nibbs
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
>