File spoon-archives/lyotard.archive/lyotard_2001/lyotard.0109, message 69

Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:54:20 +0100
Subject: Re: Mystify me!


The irony has not been lost on me...

It has struck me that, if you remember, Hugh's list of elements from 'Empire' in the 're:facts posting' that is necessary to add the extraordinary evangelically inspired terrorist
acts of 9/11/01 to the list of issues and problems. I of course agree that globalisation is the underlying cause and issue but the event itself was carried out under the
justification of the postmodern islamic evangelical attacks.

Is this not the same cause/issue as the Oklahoma bombing? It would seem that the post-colonial terrorist acivities of the various Northern-Irish terroist groups over the past 30
years could also be understood from this perspective. Ultimately economic superfically religious/cultural groupings...


Mary Murphy&Salstrand wrote:

> Matthew:
> When I used the word conflict I certainly didn't mean to use it in a
> hostilel way. I am more than willing to withdraw that term and replace
> it with cross-purposes if that seems more neutral.
> Let me acknowledge that I have found your postings to be intelligent and
> provocative. You have made me reflect more deeply on my own position
> with regard to a number of issues and for that I am grateful.
> I also think the topic of religion is an important one right now with
> the terrible incident that has occurred and that it is useful for us to
> sort out our thoughts and feelings about religion here on this site.
> I also know that we share far more in common politically than what
> divides us and I think right now it is important to build bridges and
> not walls.
> So, I want to apologize if I seem too bull-headed in my postings with
> you. I certainly didn't mean to attack you personally in any way. My
> interests were and remain focused on continuing this discussion.
> What I find ironic is that Steve and I have had a long running
> discussion over religion and I have often taken positions similar to
> yours in the past against him.
> I still maintain, however, that I see religion playing a problematic
> role in what is currently unfolding and I don't see the danger limited
> to fundamentalism alone.  That said, I don't mean to castigate any
> believer just for believing. I just want the believer to understand the
> impact his or her institution has upon the world. I don't think I am
> being arrogant about this. I am just looking for a way out of the
> wreckage.
> You aked me why I wrote the following:
> > >On the issue of autonomy, I would disagree with you regarding the role of religion in this.  To take the example of the religion I am most
> > > familiar with, Christianity, I do see it as governed by an implicit
> > > dualism between spirit deriving from God and the fallen body of man
> > > deriving from sin. (through the temptations of the woman!)  The
> > > Romantic, modern and postmodern attempts to live autonomously from the body and one's desires have been frustrated in part by Christianity's attempt to frame these as evil.
> Here is the paragraph in your post to which I was responding:
> "The belief in individual autonomy is one I have always associated with
> monotheism, so this turn in your post confused me.  Without favoring
> either monotheism OR the idea of individual autonomy, I think finding
> them essentially at odds is unempirical.  For better or for worse, one
> of these memes seems to have mutated into the other and they now
> coevolve."
> My point was that where you see these positions optimistically as
> co-evolving, I still see a good deal of tension between them and for me
> one site of this tension is over the social definition of the body and
> the issue of feminism. This example relates to the larger issue of
> religious mystification in general. I recognize I may have misread you.
> If so, would you clarify what you mean a little more?
> I hope this posting eliminates some of the misunderstanding and
> confusion. Pesonally, I have found this discussion very interesting. I
> am still attempting to sort out the role of religion in the events that
> have happened and this exchange has helped.
> sincerely,
> eric


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