Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 20:52:41 +1100
From: hbone <hbone-AT-optonline.net>
Subject: Re: media responses to 9/11


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_ZHgzi+R/ug2JDw0NavwaKg)

Steve wrote:
  The actions of the gulf war and the post-gulf war actions of the USA State and the UK State acting unilaterally against the people of Iraq are not justified. Indeed the majority of the G8/14/20 countries correctly disagree with the tactics...

  As I wait for the G8 countries in alliance with the USA to start a war - frankly I'm amazed that the USA has not already started bombing the people of Afghanistan - perhaps Bush is the most intelligent US president since Roosevelt or  are the rest of the G8 countries telling him what is required - I am still amazed by the level of  Colonial or should I say Post-Colonial language leaking out onto the web...

  Read Lyotard on colonialism and Algeria... Then substitute France for the G8 countires, not surprisingly it's extremely relevant.
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   
  REPLY:
   
  We are so far apart on the cause and remedy of the present crisis - Eric and I are so near the site of the WTC, but the U.K is so far. Although I expect the U.K. was home to a large share of the 80 nationals from outside the U.S who perished.   

  There's no point in posing our opposite views.

  On the historical front, I don't know Lyotard's views, but I always thought L'Grande Asperge" as some French nicknamed de Gaulle, was very intelligent in getting out of Algeria, and don't remember if he made the decision to get out of Viet Nam.  Letting the Algerians come to France gave France a great source of underpaid labor, prehaps 
  in a very small way like our use of Mexicans, except it was legal, not hypocritical.

  As for economics, the great shame in U.S. and U.K. is that we allow increasing disparities of wealth - about ten years ago the upper 10 percent in U.S owned 90 percent of wealth.  Haven't checked lately, but with the influx of immigrants,
  the export of jobs, with downsizing, mergers, and replacement of full-time with temporaries without benefits, I expect the upper 10 percent have increased its  share.

  I guess it was more than 10 years ago, maybe pre-Thatcher, that author Paul Theroux wrote his account of walking around England.  It seemed outer England was like U.S.
  inner cities, hopeless and bleak, generations on the dole etc.

  Maybe Thatcher fixed all that, although I've read statistics showing that Italy has gone on from post-WWII poverty to enjoy a better standard of living than England.

  Politically, the shame is that both countries have the institutions,  the experience, and traditions for democratic self government plus the opportunity to use them, but only about one-fourth of U.S. citizens of voting age elect national governments..
   
  TV ads, subsidies, and tax policy and laws written for legislators by corporate lobbyists
  serve the top 10 percent very well, and half the voting age population doesn't bother to go to the polls.
   
  I think the recent election in the U.K. reflected a smilar state of affairs.

  regards,
  Hugh 








--Boundary_(ID_ZHgzi+R/ug2JDw0NavwaKg)

HTML VERSION:

The actions of the gulf war and the post-gulf war actions of the USA State and the UK State acting unilaterally against the people of Iraq are not justified. Indeed the majority of the G8/14/20 countries correctly disagree with the tactics...

As I wait for the G8 countries in alliance with the USA to start a war - frankly I'm amazed that the USA has not already started bombing the people of Afghanistan - perhaps Bush is the most intelligent US president since Roosevelt or  are the rest of the G8 countries telling him what is required - I am still amazed by the level of  Colonial or should I say Post-Colonial language leaking out onto the web...

Read Lyotard on colonialism and Algeria... Then substitute France for the G8 countires, not surprisingly it's extremely relevant.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

REPLY:

 

We are so far apart on the cause and remedy of the present crisis - Eric and I are so near the site of the WTC, but the U.K is so far. Although I expect the U.K. was home to a large share of the 80 nationals from outside the U.S who perished.  

 

There's no point in posing our opposite views.

 

On the historical front, I don't know Lyotard's views, but I always thought L'Grande Asperge" as some French nicknamed de Gaulle, was very intelligent in getting out of Algeria, and don't remember if he made the decision to get out of Viet Nam.  Letting the Algerians come to France gave France a great source of underpaid labor, prehaps

in a very small way like our use of Mexicans, except it was legal, not hypocritical.

 

As for economics, the great shame in U.S. and U.K. is that we allow increasing disparities of wealth - about ten years ago the upper 10 percent in U.S owned 90 percent of wealth.  Haven't checked lately, but with the influx of immigrants,

the export of jobs, with downsizing, mergers, and replacement of full-time with temporaries without benefits, I expect the upper 10 percent have increased its  share.

 

I guess it was more than 10 years ago, maybe pre-Thatcher, that author Paul Theroux wrote his account of walking around England.  It seemed outer England was like U.S.

inner cities, hopeless and bleak, generations on the dole etc.

 

Maybe Thatcher fixed all that, although I've read statistics showing that Italy has gone on from post-WWII poverty to enjoy a better standard of living than England.

 

Politically, the shame is that both countries have the institutions,  the experience, and traditions for democratic self government plus the opportunity to use them, but only about one-fourth of U.S. citizens of voting age elect national governments..

 

TV ads, subsidies, and tax policy and laws written for legislators by corporate lobbyists

serve the top 10 percent very well, and half the voting age population doesn't bother to go to the polls.

 

I think the recent election in the U.K. reflected a smilar state of affairs.

 

regards,

Hugh