Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:37:55 +1000
From: hbone <hbone-AT-optonline.net>
Subject: Re: We have always been cultists


Eric,

O.K. I'll comb thru your posts, read quotes from Badiou, and try to explain
why avoiding Badiou is as important for me as not reading Derrida.

I took the time to scan some of Derrida's book s in th university library,
but never checked one out.

 I read several Foucault books, learned and absorbed some of his special
terms and concepts, and am glad I did, but much of that reading was time
wasted..

If you or anyone else can explain to me in plain English without mentioning
all the others I must read to understand Badiou, and I am convinced, fine.
Otherwise, I hope we can agree to disagree.

I did many hours of work, posting excerpts, after you suggested  we study
"The Empire" seriously.  When I found it devoid of facts about the
populations, investment, imports and exports I accumulated and posted
factual material. Since that was about the so-called "real" world, it is
(for me) useful knowledge, and I don't consider the time wasted..

If  Badiou's concepts present us with an interesting (productive?) vision of
the world we live in I'll read.

best,

Hugh

P.S. There are a lot of definitions of cultist. This is the one I favor

5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film
or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual
fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion













> Hugh:
>
> I have to admit I am at a loss here.  I spent a fair amount of time and
> energy these past few weeks summarizing the first four chapters of
> Badiou's Ethics. I included a number of direct quotes in them as well.
> Now you want me to go through Badiou once again and select some
> additional quotes, so you can simply pick them apart with your usual
> random and sporadic comments.
>
> Frankly, I can't see what is to be gained by doing this again! I already
> did it once! Didn't you read what I wrote the first time?
>
> You said in a previous post that you reacted negatively to what Badiou
> was saying.  All I was asking was for you to clarify what you meant by
> this remark. I wanted to understand your personal reaction to these
> concepts, and, also, perhaps some articulation of what you understand by
> ethics.
>
> Because I really don't think it is appropriate to simply throw out
> comments like: "As you know, I think cultism when I read the names,
> codewords and endless abstractions of Badiou and those other guys."
>
> Do you have the name of good de-programmer you can put me in touch with
> since you obviously hold these discussions, and apparently me as well,
> in contempt?
>
> Explain to me exactly why I am a cultist and what meaning cultism might
> have in such a context?  Also, how it is again you consider yourself
> immune to all this?
>
> Furthermore, Negri and Hardt do not simply discuss the concept of Empire
> in isolation. They discuss it in the context of the Multitude and
> counter-Empire. Personally, I don't consider myself the Empire and I
> certainly don't think Empire simply means anything goes, so your entire
> argument along these lines seems like nothing more than specious
> reasoning to me.
>
> For the record, my wife has dual citizenship in Ireland. So, actually,
> this issue of citizenship is something I have discussed with her and
> considered, but never acted upon.
>
> I am a native born American and frankly don't give a damn for your
> "America, love it or leave" attitude.  I'll stay here if it suits me,
> thank you very much and critique it for its bad faith, if it suits me.
> That's the difference between patriotism and fascism.
>
> Tell me, does the living presence of a native-born cultist with
> abstract, foreign (French) ideas scare you? Do you consider me a
> terrorist as well? I'm just curious.
>
> Why do you continue to participate in a group like this, discussing the
> abstract ideas of a dead white guy, if you hold it all in contempt or
> think it is merely a form of cultism?
>
> Send me a dozen quotes why.
>
> eric
>
> PS - For the record, I enjoyed reading the Baudrillard essay.
>