Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:10:46 +0000
Subject: Re: We have always been cultists




Hugh

With regard to the 'Empire' and its lack of basic numbers as I said when 
we were discussing the text, I'd recommend Hirst and Thompson 
 Globalisation in Question - which precisely does have those facts. 
However the the underlying purpose behind 'Empire' is to offer a leftist 
utopian vision, a positive and hopeful vision,  not to state and prove 
the diffferences between economic structures between the G20 countries 
for example...

steve

>I did many hours of work, posting excerpts, after you suggested  we study
>"The Empire" seriously.  When I found it devoid of facts about the
>populations, investment, imports and exports I accumulated and posted
>factual material. Since that was about the so-called "real" world, it is
>(for me) useful knowledge, and I don't consider the time wasted..
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>>Hugh:
>>
>>I have to admit I am at a loss here.  I spent a fair amount of time and
>>energy these past few weeks summarizing the first four chapters of
>>Badiou's Ethics. I included a number of direct quotes in them as well.
>>Now you want me to go through Badiou once again and select some
>>additional quotes, so you can simply pick them apart with your usual
>>random and sporadic comments.
>>
>>Frankly, I can't see what is to be gained by doing this again! I already
>>did it once! Didn't you read what I wrote the first time?
>>
>>You said in a previous post that you reacted negatively to what Badiou
>>was saying.  All I was asking was for you to clarify what you meant by
>>this remark. I wanted to understand your personal reaction to these
>>concepts, and, also, perhaps some articulation of what you understand by
>>ethics.
>>
>>Because I really don't think it is appropriate to simply throw out
>>comments like: "As you know, I think cultism when I read the names,
>>codewords and endless abstractions of Badiou and those other guys."
>>
>>Do you have the name of good de-programmer you can put me in touch with
>>since you obviously hold these discussions, and apparently me as well,
>>in contempt?
>>
>>Explain to me exactly why I am a cultist and what meaning cultism might
>>have in such a context?  Also, how it is again you consider yourself
>>immune to all this?
>>
>>Furthermore, Negri and Hardt do not simply discuss the concept of Empire
>>in isolation. They discuss it in the context of the Multitude and
>>counter-Empire. Personally, I don't consider myself the Empire and I
>>certainly don't think Empire simply means anything goes, so your entire
>>argument along these lines seems like nothing more than specious
>>reasoning to me.
>>
>>For the record, my wife has dual citizenship in Ireland. So, actually,
>>this issue of citizenship is something I have discussed with her and
>>considered, but never acted upon.
>>
>>I am a native born American and frankly don't give a damn for your
>>"America, love it or leave" attitude.  I'll stay here if it suits me,
>>thank you very much and critique it for its bad faith, if it suits me.
>>That's the difference between patriotism and fascism.
>>
>>Tell me, does the living presence of a native-born cultist with
>>abstract, foreign (French) ideas scare you? Do you consider me a
>>terrorist as well? I'm just curious.
>>
>>Why do you continue to participate in a group like this, discussing the
>>abstract ideas of a dead white guy, if you hold it all in contempt or
>>think it is merely a form of cultism?
>>
>>Send me a dozen quotes why.
>>
>>eric
>>
>>PS - For the record, I enjoyed reading the Baudrillard essay.
>>
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HTML VERSION:

I did many hours of work, posting excerpts, after you suggested  we study
"The Empire" seriously.  When I found it devoid of facts about the
populations, investment, imports and exports I accumulated and posted
factual material. Since that was about the so-called "real" world, it is
(for me) useful knowledge, and I don't consider the time wasted..

Hugh:

I have to admit I am at a loss here.  I spent a fair amount of time and
energy these past few weeks summarizing the first four chapters of
Badiou's Ethics. I included a number of direct quotes in them as well.
Now you want me to go through Badiou once again and select some
additional quotes, so you can simply pick them apart with your usual
random and sporadic comments.

Frankly, I can't see what is to be gained by doing this again! I already
did it once! Didn't you read what I wrote the first time?

You said in a previous post that you reacted negatively to what Badiou
was saying.  All I was asking was for you to clarify what you meant by
this remark. I wanted to understand your personal reaction to these
concepts, and, also, perhaps some articulation of what you understand by
ethics.

Because I really don't think it is appropriate to simply throw out
comments like: "As you know, I think cultis
m when I read the names,
codewords and endless abstractions of Badiou and those other guys."

Do you have the name of good de-programmer you can put me in touch with
since you obviously hold these discussions, and apparently me as well,
in contempt?

Explain to me exactly why I am a cultist and what meaning cultism might
have in such a context?  Also, how it is again you consider yourself
immune to all this?

Furthermore, Negri and Hardt do not simply discuss the concept of Empire
in isolation. They discuss it in the context of the Multitude and
counter-Empire. Personally, I don't consider myself the Empire and I
certainly don't think Empire simply means anything goes, so your entire
argument along these lines seems like nothing more than specious
reasoning to me.

For the record, my wife has dual citizenship in Ireland. So, actually,
this issue of citizenship is something I have discussed with her and
considered, bu
t never acted upon.

I am a native born American and frankly don't give a damn for your
"America, love it or leave" attitude.  I'll stay here if it suits me,
thank you very much and critique it for its bad faith, if it suits me.
That's the difference between patriotism and fascism.

Tell me, does the living presence of a native-born cultist with
abstract, foreign (French) ideas scare you? Do you consider me a
terrorist as well? I'm just curious.

Why do you continue to participate in a group like this, discussing the
abstract ideas of a dead white guy, if you hold it all in contempt or
think it is merely a form of cultism?

Send me a dozen quotes why.

eric

PS - For the record, I enjoyed reading the Baudrillard essay.