Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:58:52 +1000
From: hbone <hbone-AT-optonline.net>
Subject: Re: more on cyborgs and the inhuman


Eric/All,

One doesn't change the past, one changes one's mind - the same way one
changes one's  mind about the future.

One isn't a citizen of the world, for there is no world group that has
citizens. One is automatically citizen of her/his birth country which can
punish inappropriate behavior with death or lesser penalties.

best,
Hugh

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eric wrote"
> hugh/glen/all:
>
> Bateson, Olson and I are not talking fatalism here. What we are saying
> is that one of the reasons the earth doesn't do a good job of taking
> care of its feathers and society is precisely because of the Occidental
> Cartesian view of the Agent as separate and delimited that our culture
> has been implicitly advocating. We are all implicated in this complexity
> and what I have been advocating in terms of the cyborg is the simple
> recognition of this basic insight.  The Bateson quote came from his
> essay "The Cybernetics of Self: A Theory of Alchololism." Here is
> another quote from that essay:
>
> "In sum, I shall argue that the "sobriety" of the alcholic is
> characterized by an unusually disastrous variant of the Cartesian
> dualism, the division between Mind and Matter, or, in this case, between
> conscious will, or "self," and the remainder of the personality.  Bill
> W's stroke of genius was to break up with the first "step" the
> structuring of this dualism."
>
> "Philosophically viewed, this first step is not a surrender; it is
> simply a change in epistemology, a change in how to know about the
> personality-in-the-world.  And notably, the change is from an incorrect
> to a more correct epistemology."
>
> God can't change the past perhaps, but we can, by the way we interpret
> it!
>
> eric
>
>
> >
> > Eric,
> >
> > Bateson could have enumerated all the atomic particles of all the atoms
of
> > all the molecules in all the proteins in all the cells of the axman.
After
> > the fact, such totality and inevitability
> > seems to confirm pure fatalism..  Even God cannot change the past.
Those ax
> > strokes seem to have little effect on the social fate that threatens
> > Occidentals and Orientals alike.  If your boat sank you could remember
> > Bateson, take nap while your body swam ashore.
> >
> > Olsen is right too,  Its a poetic thought.   Of course, the whole earth
> > takes care of the feather, and all the other feathers, and societies,
often
> > badly.
> >
> > Its the old question of who are we and what can we do about it, and why
does
> > it matter?
> >
> > best,
> > Hugh
>