Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 18:41:31 +1000
From: hbone <hbone-AT-optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Baudrillard, founding fathers, revolutionaries, etc.etc.


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_uNeVH8zHNuh1+aNcXRwtUA)


  Steve/All,

  Yes, let's applaud these measures towards justice.

  If "we the people" of the United States had been something else, if  there had been a worldwide constitutional assembly, it might have declared: "we the people of all nations of Planet Earth" do proclaim and establish this Constitution for the governance of Planet Earth" 

  In "Le Differend", Lyotard describes how, only a few years the U.S. was established, the French nation went through a similar procedure, establishing its own God-blessed national government.

  Industrialized nations, excluding the U.S., are still a minority of world population.  The members of the European Union may be, but probably are not, willing to let their citizens be judged by a single Euro system of courts. 

  A  problem of justice, in the Information Age is to restrain Globalization, the Goliath of Empire.   

  Thirteen U.S. colonies via a formal Constitution subordinated their colonial rights to a centralized government.

  About the same number of nation-states in the European Union have been co-operating in surrendering some rights, as Euro-money (minus Britain and two or three others)  I would prefer to see them decentralize, give Burgundy, Scotland, Catalonia, Bavaria, and other ethnic regions nation-statehood.  Kill the  virus of Globalization, or else, in the 22nd Century there may be a citizenry of refugees, with more and more concentrated areas like Tokyo, or Sao Paulo, or New York, where close-packed homogenized mllions enjoy equal rights to starve.  The hundreds of billioniares who now reap the profits of globalization will be gone, but their billionaire successors may  be numbered in thousands or millions.

  Cheers,
  Hugh


   




  Hugh/All
  One of the most interesting and hopeful political developments over the past few years is mentioned below namely the trial of Milosevich, in itself  as Hugh suggests, a singular event, however if placed in the context of the positive results in Chile after the Generalissimo was nearly deported to Spain as a war-criminal, and the recent arrest in Tanzania of one of leaders of the genocide in Rwanda...  These are positive developments which we should all applaud.

  The arrests signifies the creation of 'empire' in my view, the refusal of the USA, (amoungst others) to sign the agreement by which an American soldier engaged in a massacre could be tried as a war-criminal, whilst the peripheral countries such as Rwanda are forced  into the treaty,  places the USA in the position of waiting for the first in-absentia trial of US citizins. Is it in the US constitution that USA citizins are immune from justice? 

  It is not that the USA is outside the boundaries, rather that non of the G20 countries imagine that they will ever commit such atrocities... but of course since Pinochet was a US client it is ownly a matter of time...

  regards
  steve

  hbone wrote:

Lois wrote:
Are we still speaking past each other?..Lois Shawver
:Let's hope not, or, if that be the case, it is only temporary.Speaking for myself, I think there is no approach to terrorism that canplease all of us onthe Lyotard List.And that is because nation-state democracy is yielding to super-powerplutocracy.   The U.S. is the new "Empire", there is no World Government,nor prospect of such.Industrialized nations (count them as  G-7 or G-20) pose no threat to U.S.power.  With the help of the Transnational Agencies.(dominated by the U.S.)the wealthy elites of all nations  continue theexploitation of the poor in their own and other countries.It began with the Industrial Revolution.  With new practices, inventions andtechnologies, including export of millions of slaves to the New World,British colonies and colonialism dominated the Globe before that empireself-destructed in WWI and WWII.After those wars, the changes in Russia, whic
h had not been a threat whenthe British Empire was at its peak, made it  a  Cold War superpower, anempire that influenced many nations outside its USSR boundaries.Globalization emerged when the USSR self-destructed concurrent with the riseInformation Age technology.In the late 19th century the technology of rapid ocean transport wasguaranteed by British warships.At the end of the 20th century,  the U.S. military, the only remainingsuperpower, protected U.S. influence over Transnational corporations and theinternationalagencies who subvert  nation-states' traditional role in controlling theeconomic activities of their own citizens.There has never been a time when global population was as large as it isnow, or when poverty and disease were afftecting so many people as todaySome form of World Government might be the best way to alleviate thesedeplorable conditions.  Power seems never to be surrendere
d willingly -don't expect the U.S. to be an exception.The UN has such powers as the US permits, as do other agencies, for example,the trial of Milosevich as war criminal.Does any nation or agency know how to stop suicidal attacks by terrorists?Does any nation know how to keep occupied territory at peace?If Palestine and Israel know the answers they must have reason not to usethem.In the meantime we (humankind) pray, wave flags, invent ever more subtleethics, launch missiles, drop bombs, enrich the globalized media,communications, entertainment and military industrial complexes.Cheers,Hugh



--Boundary_(ID_uNeVH8zHNuh1+aNcXRwtUA)

HTML VERSION:

Steve/All,

 

Yes, let's applaud these measures towards justice.

 

If "we the people" of the United States had been something else, if  there had been a worldwide constitutional assembly, it might have declared: "we the people of all nations of Planet Earth" do proclaim and establish this Constitution for the governance of Planet Earth"

 

In "Le Differend", Lyotard describes how, only a few years the U.S. was established, the French nation went through a similar procedure, establishing its own God-blessed national government.

 

Industrialized nations, excluding the U.S., are still a minority of world population.  The members of the European Union may be, but probably are not, willing to let their citizens be judged by a single Euro system of courts.

 

A problem of justice, in the Information Age is to restrain Globalization, the Goliath of Empire.  

 

Thirteen U.S. colonies via a formal Constitution subordinated their colonial rights to a centralized government.

 

About the same number of nation-states in the European Union have been co-operating in surrendering some rights, as Euro-money (minus Britain and two or three others)  I would prefer to see them decentralize, give Burgundy, Scotland, Catalonia, Bavaria, and other ethnic regions nation-statehood.  Kill the  virus of Globalization, or else, in the 22nd Century there may be a citizenry of refugees, with more and more concentrated areas like Tokyo, or Sao Paulo, or New York, where close-packed homogenized mllions enjoy equal rights to starve.  The hundreds of billioniares who now reap the profits of globalization will be gone, but their billionaire successors may  be numbered in thousands or millions.

 

Cheers,

Hugh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hugh/All
One of the most interesting and hopeful political developments over the past few years is mentioned below namely the trial of Milosevich, in itself  as Hugh suggests, a singular event, however if placed in the context of the positive results in Chile after the Generalissimo was nearly deported to Spain as a war-criminal, and the recent arrest in Tanzania of one of leaders of the genocide in Rwanda...  These are positive developments which we should all applaud.

The arrests signifies the creation of 'empire' in my view, the refusal of the USA, (amoungst others) to sign the agreement by which an American soldier engaged in a massacre could be tried as a war-criminal, whilst the peripheral countries such as Rwanda are forced  into the treaty,  places the USA in the position of waiting for the first in-absentia trial of US citizins. Is it in the US constitution that USA citizins are immune from justice?

It is not that the USA is outside the boundaries, rather that non of the G20 countries imagine that they will ever commit such atrocities... but of course since Pinochet was a US client it is ownly a matter of time...

regards
steve

hbone wrote:

Lois wrote:

Are we still speaking past each other?

..Lois Shawver

:Let's hope not, or, if that be the case, it is only temporary.

Speaking for myself, I think there is no approach to terrorism that can
please all of us on
the Lyotard List.

And that is because nation-state democracy is yielding to super-power
plutocracy.   The U.S. is the new "Empire", there is no World Government,
nor prospect of such.

Industrialized nations (count them as  G-7 or G-20) pose no threat to U.S.
power.  With the help of the Transnational Agencies.(dominated by the U.S.)
the wealthy elites of all nations  continue the
exploitation of the poor in their own and other countries.

It began with the Industrial Revolution.  With new practices, inventions and
technologies, including export of millions of slaves to the New World,
British colonies and colonialism dominated the Globe before that empire
self-destructed in WWI and WWII.

After those wars, the changes in Russia, whic
h had not been a threat when
the British Empire was at its peak, made it  a  Cold War superpower, an
empire that influenced many nations outside its USSR boundaries.

Globalization emerged when the USSR self-destructed concurrent with the rise
Information Age technology.

In the late 19th century the technology of rapid ocean transport was
guaranteed by British warships.

At the end of the 20th century,  the U.S. military, the only remaining
superpower, protected U.S. influence over Transnational corporations and the
international
agencies who subvert  nation-states' traditional role in controlling the
economic activities of their own citizens.

There has never been a time when global population was as large as it is
now, or when poverty and disease were afftecting so many people as today

Some form of World Government might be the best way to alleviate these
deplorable conditions.  Power seems never to be surrendere
d willingly -
don't expect the U.S. to be an exception.

The UN has such powers as the US permits, as do other agencies, for example,
the trial of Milosevich as war criminal.

Does any nation or agency know how to stop suicidal attacks by terrorists?

Does any nation know how to keep occupied territory at peace?

If Palestine and Israel know the answers they must have reason not to use
them.

In the meantime we (humankind) pray, wave flags, invent ever more subtle
ethics, launch missiles, drop bombs, enrich the globalized media,
communications, entertainment and military industrial complexes.

Cheers,
Hugh