Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:37:25 +0100
From: "steve.devos" <steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk>
Subject: Re: bali - rhetoric




Glen/Reg/All

This may not be the moment to raise the unpleasentness of tourism - but 
given the sheer volume of sex tourism that goes on where people from the 
G20 states travel off to the south to engage in sexual acts with 
everything from children through women and young men to various inoocent 
animals - I  can't myself  consider the word 'tourism' as quite as 
innocent as all that.  Not withstanding that - none of us can be 
considered as that 'innocent' - I am always reminded at these moments of 
Peter Singer's rather excellent eample of  eating in out in a restaurant 
or paying money to support an African village and enabling it to have 
clean water... We live with these contradictions at all times. 

It will be interesting to see if the Australian State begins to 
negotiate a position similar to the hardline violence that the US and UK 
States consider as the appropriate response - whilst supporting state 
terrorism...elsewhere.

Meta-terrorism - all terroristic activity has am interesting and 
discreet relationship to the state - this hasn't changed in the current 
era and remains consistent. It is not just a case of state security 
using terrorists and meta-terrorists to increase their departments 
sizes,  but also occasionally they are the same people. From Russia 
(late 19th C), UK and Italy into Indonesia and beyond into Latin America 
there are well documented examples.

regards
steve

Glen Fuller wrote:

>Reg/Steve/all
>
>I wonder what some of the more militant post-colonial writers will say? (Of
>course that is just rhetoric on my part, are there militant post-colonial
>writers?)
>
>Tourists being targeted rather than people of the country (who were also
>attacked, but were they targeted? Does it matter who was targeted if the
>home governments of the tourists are suggesting it were tourists targeted?)
>seems it is more like mobility that is being attacked rather than nation
>states. The mobility specific to globalisation, not only of flows of
>capital, but flows of culture. Meta-terrorism? (Or perhaps it is just easier
>to attack tourists?) Is it enough of an Event for the populations of the
>tourist's home countries for them to question the cultural flows into such
>tourist havens?
>
>Most of the reportage has been focused on the grief side of things, rather
>than retribution or revenge. Although, it seems as though the respective
>spokespeople are playing the rhetoric game of labelling blame against
>'terrorism'. However, I agree with Reg, the response to this 'terrorism' is
>being represented as though it cannot be taken lightly and is a complex
>matter. (perhaps more rhetoric? "we must take the response-deliberation
>process lightly," so then later, "but we will have to bomb the hell out of
>someplace")
>
>I found out that some of my friends had friends and loved ones over there, I
>am yet to find out about anyone I new being there at the time. Some footy
>players and a couple of surfies. They seem to be alright. Like I think I
>said previously, some of my friends have cancelled their intended Bali
>end-of-semester holiday.
>
>Glen.
>
>Glen.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk>
>To: <lyotard-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
>Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 8:06 PM
>Subject: Re: bali
>
>
>>Reg/Glen/all
>>
>>the media here immediately conflated the Bali event with the September
>>
>11th
>
>>event and the other related terroristic activity. The usual strange
>>ahistorical statements related to the 'innocence of the tourists...'
>>whilstr blair's speeches were calculated expressions designed to justify
>>the future carpet bombing of Iraq and continued justifications for the
>>
>'war
>
>>on terrorism'....
>>
>>at this rate we will have returned to 19th and mid 20th levels of violence
>>by the end of the year..
>>
>>regards
>>
>>steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Steve,
>>>
>>>Front page news every day since it happened. It will take some time for
>>>body parts to be identified.
>>>
>>>Some concerns about our gung-ho response to Iraq, but most realize the
>>>reasons are more complex. There is resentment against Australia because
>>>we went into East Timor (esp. by Kopassus, the Indon military.) Also
>>>resentment by Moslem hardliners against the Balinese, who are
>>>Hindu/Budhist, and the fact that the Balinese have earned a lot in
>>>tourism dollars from
>>>Australians - nightclubs, alcohol, young women wandering the streets in
>>>skimpy bikinis etc.
>>>
>>>Many letters published in the newspapers from Stateside offering
>>>condolences - our thanks to you all for that.
>>>
>>>Reg
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: steve.devos <steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk>
>>>To: <lyotard-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
>>>Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 1:03 AM
>>>Subject: bali
>>>
>>>
>>>>Glen
>>>>
>>>>any responses to the Bali event?
>>>>
>>>>regards
>>>>steve
>>>>
>>
>>
>

HTML VERSION:

Reg/Steve/all

I wonder what some of the more militant post-colonial writers will say? (Of
course that is just rhetoric on my part, are there militant post-colonial
writers?)

Tourists being targeted rather than people of the country (who were also
attacked, but were they targeted? Does it matter who was targeted if the
home governments of the tourists are suggesting it were tourists targeted?)
seems it is more like mobility that is being attacked rather than nation
states. The mobility specific to globalisation, not only of flows of
capital, but flows of culture. Meta-terrorism? (Or perhaps it is just easier
to attack tourists?) Is it enough of an Event for the populations of the
tourist's home countries for them to question the cultural flows into such
tourist havens?

Most of the reportage has been focused on the grief side of things, rather
than retribution or revenge. Although, it seems as though the resp
ective
spokespeople are playing the rhetoric game of labelling blame against
'terrorism'. However, I agree with Reg, the response to this 'terrorism' is
being represented as though it cannot be taken lightly and is a complex
matter. (perhaps more rhetoric? "we must take the response-deliberation
process lightly," so then later, "but we will have to bomb the hell out of
someplace")

I found out that some of my friends had friends and loved ones over there, I
am yet to find out about anyone I new being there at the time. Some footy
players and a couple of surfies. They seem to be alright. Like I think I
said previously, some of my friends have cancelled their intended Bali
end-of-semester holiday.

Glen.

Glen.

----- Original Message -----
From: <steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk>
To: <lyotard-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: bali

Reg/Glen/all

the media here immediately conflated the Bali event with the September

11th

event and the other related terroristic activity. The usual strange
ahistorical statements related to the 'innocence of the tourists...'
whilstr blair's speeches were calculated expressions designed to justify
the future carpet bombing of Iraq and continued justifications for the

'war

on terrorism'....

at this rate we will have returned to 19th and mid 20th levels of violence
by the end of the year..

regards

steve

Steve,

Front page news every day since it happened. It will take some time for
body parts to be identified.

Some concerns about our gung-ho response to Iraq, but most realize the
reasons are more complex. There is resentment against Australia because
we went into East Timor (esp. by Kopassus, the Indon military.) Also
resentment by Moslem hardliners against the Balinese, who are
Hindu/Budhist, and the fact that the Balinese have earned a lot in
tourism dollars from
Australians - nightclubs, alcohol, young women wandering the streets in
skimpy bikinis etc.

Many letters published in the newspapers from Stateside offering
condolences - our thanks to you all for that.

Reg

----- Original Message -----
From: steve.devos <steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk>
To: <lyotard-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 1:03 AM
Subject: bali

Glen

any responses to the Bali event?

regards
steve