File spoon-archives/lyotard.archive/lyotard_2003/lyotard.0301, message 108


Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:23:18 +0000
From: "steve.devos" <steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Over the rainbow - resistence and recovery




Hugh
What you are describing below is a classical post-modern defined 
grand-narrative, it's current incarnation is neo-liberalism and the 
third-way. The late Lyotard would have argued that it was simply the 
current socio-economic means of organising Development. It's a 
meta-narrative that is far from ended and remains the most important one 
to transform and understand. People on the left have been resisting it 
in a myriad of forms of organisation for centuries....

Liberals in the UK support neo-liberalism and the third way - in truth 
it was the marriage of right-wing socialism and the liberalism that 
resulted in the third way. The current renaming of the third way to 
'Christian Socialism' is interesting in that it announces its failure, 
besides which, can't you always tell when 'they' are shifting to the 
right by the way they wear their god as a shield from the terrible 
things they are doing?  

regards
steve

http://www.stopwar.org.uk

hbone wrote:

> Eric/All,
>  
> I think your message to Steve, that follows this one helps me 
> understand your puzzlement.  We have been talking about religion and 
> atheism, various  ideologies and belief systems.  
>  
> I consulted Google on belief systems, and more than 1,300,000 were found.
>  
> You learned from reading Hayek.  If  we only talked with friends, and 
> read from authors who agreed with our opinions 100%, how would we 
> learn anything ?
>  
> Hayek and other conservative economists, like many philosophers, 
> described an ideal world.  The real world of Adam Smith laissez-faire, 
> never existed.  Poland and Russia changed from Stalinism to a version 
> of laissez-faire with quite different results. 
>  
> The late 19th century exprience of laissez-faire in the United States 
> was a horror.  A hundred years ago Theodore Rex began to change the 
> situation, and the plight of workers improved, was shattered by the 
> Great Depression, but they recovered and made further advances 
> preceding and following WWII.
>  
> Steve is curious about Libertarians of the Right.  They 
> have considerable organization in the U.S.
>  
>   I'm curious about Libertarians of the Left and how they are 
> organized or dis-organized.  I know "LiberaL" has become a 
> sneer-word to Republicans,  but don't the status of Liberals in the U.K.
>  
> There are several hundred authors mentioned in the Integral 
> Bibliography, many of them well-known to History.  Quite a few 
> well-known Post-Modern authors appear, and many others, with recent 
> books I never heard of. 
>  
> Works are listed in categories and sub-categories that I haven't had 
> time to study, but don't know of any other site that presents such a 
> broad picture.  I'd never heard of  Ken Wilber, but if the Devil 
> himself wrote the Integral Bibliography, it would only make me more 
> curious.
> Hugh
>  
>  
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  
> > Hugh,
> >
> > I'm curious. I admit I haven't really taken the time to drill down and
> > investigate this web site thoroughly, but taking just a quick browse it
> > doesn't really appear to have that much connection to what we have been
> > talking about here at all. What is the link here that you see and I am
> > missing?
> >
> > Perhaps one thing that is a stumbling block for me is that the first
> > paragraph mentions Ken Wilber and the structuring principles of the site
> > seem to be derived from him. I have to admit I personally find Wilber to
> > be an incredibly reactionary philosopher and I actually was one of the
> > few to make my way through his entire 'novel' "Boomeritis" laughing
> > hysterically at his very nave take on contemporary thought.  Zizek's
> > comments about how Buddhism and New Age thought currently functions as
> > capitalist ideology applies to Wilber's line of thought in spades.  The
> > man practically drools over the whole concept of development and he
> > personifies the contemporary narcissism of the culture.
> >
> > Do we really need the orange meme of Bush to counterbalance the warm,
> > soft, fuzzy green meme and this will somehow lead us all into some
> > higher rainbow spectrum synthesis? I don't think so. In fact for me this
> > whole simplistic line of thinking is a big part of the problem.
> >
> > eric
> >
> >
> >
> > 



HTML VERSION:

Hugh
What you are describing below is a classical post-modern defined grand-narrative, it's current incarnation is neo-liberalism and the third-way. The late Lyotard would have argued that it was simply the current socio-economic means of organising Development. It's a meta-narrative that is far from ended and remains the most important one to transform and understand. People on the left have been resisting it in a myriad of forms of organisation for centuries....

Liberals in the UK support neo-liberalism and the third way - in truth it was the marriage of right-wing socialism and the liberalism that resulted in the third way. The current renaming of the third way to 'Christian Socialism' is interesting in that it announces its failure, besides which, can't you always tell when 'they' are shifting to the right by the way they wear their god as a shield from the terrible things they are doing?  

regards
steve

http://www.stopwar.org.uk


hbone wrote:
Eric/All,
 
I think your message to Steve, that follows this one helps me understand your puzzlement.  We have been talking about religion and atheism, various  ideologies and belief systems.  
 
I consulted Google on belief systems, and more than 1,300,000 were found.
 
You learned from reading Hayek.  If  we only talked with friends, and read from authors who agreed with our opinions 100%, how would we learn anything ?
 
Hayek and other conservative economists, like many philosophers, described an ideal world.  The real world of Adam Smith laissez-faire, never existed.  Poland and Russia changed from Stalinism to a version of laissez-faire with quite different results. 
 
The late 19th century exprience of laissez-faire in the United States was a horror.  A hundred years ago Theodore Rex began to change the situation, and the plight of workers improved, was shattered by the Great Depression, but they recovered and made further advances preceding and following WWII.
 
Steve is curious about Libertarians of the Right.  They have considerable organization in the U.S.
 
  I'm curious about Libertarians of the Left and how they are organized or dis-organized.  I know "LiberaL" has become a sneer-word to Republicans,  but don't the status of Liberals in the U.K.
 
There are several hundred authors mentioned in the Integral Bibliography, many of them well-known to History.  Quite a few well-known Post-Modern authors appear, and many others, with recent books I never heard of. 
 
Works are listed in categories and sub-categories that I haven't had time to study, but don't know of any other site that presents such a broad picture.  I'd never heard of  Ken Wilber, but if the Devil himself wrote the Integral Bibliography, it would only make me more curious.
Hugh
 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
> Hugh,
>
> I'm curious. I admit I haven't really taken the time to drill down and
> investigate this web site thoroughly, but taking just a quick browse it
> doesn't really appear to have that much connection to what we have been
> talking about here at all. What is the link here that you see and I am
> missing?
>
> Perhaps one thing that is a stumbling block for me is that the first
> paragraph mentions Ken Wilber and the structuring principles of the site
> seem to be derived from him. I have to admit I personally find Wilber to
> be an incredibly reactionary philosopher and I actually was one of the
> few to make my way through his entire 'novel' "Boomeritis" laughing
> hysterically at his very nave take on contemporary thought.  Zizek's
> comments about how Buddhism and New Age thought currently functions as
> capitalist ideology applies to Wilber's line of thought in spades.  The
> man practically drools over the whole concept of development and he
> personifies the contemporary narcissism of the culture.
>
> Do we really need the orange meme of Bush to counterbalance the warm,
> soft, fuzzy green meme and this will somehow lead us all into some
> higher rainbow spectrum synthesis? I don't think so. In fact for me this
> whole simplistic line of thinking is a big part of the problem.
>
> eric
>
>
>
>


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