From: steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:05:50 -0000 (GMT) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Postmodern_Reflections_-_Talk_to_Her?= Hugh/Eric Given that in most Hollywood (USA) SF movies the ideal phantasy woman is a cyborg (the female androids in Bladerunner for example) - and there is nothing 'virtual' about them - I think that Zizek's woman gets the better end of the deal...given that at least it's flesh and blood. Curiously this seems to be a hollywood issue - SF from Russia, France and Japan/China works this issue very differently. regards steve > Eric wrote: > >>Hugh, >> >> I have been reading a discussion in Zizek where he makes the claim >> that culturally the ideal lover for a women seems to be a primate >> animal whereas the ideal lover for a men seems to be a virtual cyborg >> woman. The idea couple would then perhaps be King Kong and Laura >> Croft, Tomb Raider; the Adam and Eve of a new postmodern race. > > If Zizek learned about the ideal for a woman, it must be that a woman > told him. Another woman might have a different ideal. He would have to > ask. > > He must know his own ideal lover, but he can't speak for other men. > >> Anyway, I was reminded of such thoughts after I watched "Talk to Her". >> It seemed at one level like Almodovar was playing with exactly this >> stereotype of male fantasy. For Benigno, Alicia is the perfect lover >> because she can never talk back to him and she passively receives all >> of his projections because she is in a coma. > > It's ironic that what we don't know about others becomes a stereotype. > Different stereotypes for different cultures, and the less we know of > the culture, the stronger the belief in the stereotype. > > The mathematical permutations of male, female, with hetero, homo, and > bi sexuality provide lots of variety. Benigno's weirdness was > concentrated on his Mother first, and Alicia after his Mother died. > It's remarkable that Almodovar could write the role, and the actor > could to create a character so > believable. > > Could such a person really exist? Lot's of permutations. > >> At some level, Almodovar clearly appears to be poking fun at the usual >> male fantasy of men and the way they approach their relationships with >> women. Why is it for many men, the ideal woman would be exactly that - >> a girl in a coma. > > I think its deeper than that. Not about a simple stereotype, but about > all men and all women in terms of how their experiences and beliefs > allow them to > relate to Benigno. > >> At the beginning, Benigno appears to be perfectly innocent. It is only >> as the story unfolds that we begin to realize how much his love is a >> form of neurotic sickness. At some level, Benigno becomes a stand-in >> for the typical male. We laugh, but we also cringe. > > Are "normal" men and women ever neurotic in their love-sickness, or > merely simple-minded Zizek stereotypes? Perhaps the wisest words are > "Talk to Her". > > hugh
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