File spoon-archives/lyotard.archive/lyotard_2003/lyotard.0301, message 61


From: steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:05:50 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Postmodern_Reflections_-_Talk_to_Her?=


Hugh/Eric

Given that in most Hollywood (USA) SF movies the ideal phantasy woman is a
cyborg (the female androids in Bladerunner for example) - and there is
nothing 'virtual' about them - I think that Zizek's woman gets the better
end of the deal...given that at least it's flesh and blood.

Curiously this seems to be a hollywood issue - SF from Russia, France and
Japan/China works this issue very differently.

regards
steve

> Eric wrote:
> 
>>Hugh,
>>
>> I have been reading a discussion in Zizek where he makes the claim
>> that culturally the ideal lover for a women seems to be a primate
>> animal whereas the ideal lover for a men seems to be a virtual cyborg
>> woman. The idea couple would then perhaps be King Kong and Laura
>> Croft, Tomb Raider; the Adam and Eve of a new postmodern race.
> 
> If Zizek learned about the ideal for a woman, it must be that a  woman
> told him. Another woman might have a different ideal.  He would have to
> ask.
> 
> He must know his own ideal lover, but he can't speak for other men.
> 
>> Anyway, I was reminded of such thoughts after I watched "Talk to Her".
>> It seemed at one level like Almodovar was playing with exactly this
>> stereotype of male fantasy.  For Benigno, Alicia is the perfect lover
>> because she can never talk back to him and she passively receives all
>> of his projections because she is in a coma.
> 
> It's ironic that what we don't know about others becomes a stereotype.
> Different stereotypes for different cultures, and the less we know of
> the culture, the stronger the belief in the stereotype.
> 
> The mathematical permutations of male, female, with hetero, homo,  and
> bi sexuality provide lots of variety.  Benigno's weirdness was
> concentrated  on his Mother first, and Alicia after his Mother died. 
> It's remarkable that Almodovar could write the role, and the actor
> could  to create a character so
> believable.
> 
> Could such a person really exist?  Lot's of permutations.
> 
>> At some level, Almodovar clearly appears to be poking fun at the usual
>> male fantasy of men and the way they approach their relationships with
>> women. Why is it for many men, the ideal woman would be exactly that -
>> a girl in a coma.
> 
> I think its deeper than that.  Not about a simple stereotype, but about
> all men and all women in terms of how their experiences and beliefs
> allow them to
> relate to Benigno.
> 
>> At the beginning, Benigno appears to be perfectly innocent. It is only
>> as the story unfolds that we begin to realize how much his love is a
>> form of neurotic sickness. At some level, Benigno becomes a stand-in
>> for the typical male. We laugh, but we also cringe.
> 
> Are "normal" men and women ever neurotic in their love-sickness, or
> merely simple-minded Zizek stereotypes?  Perhaps the wisest words are
> "Talk to Her".
> 
> hugh



   

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