File spoon-archives/lyotard.archive/lyotard_2003/lyotard.0302, message 158


Subject: RE: terms - libertarian
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:03:22 -0600


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Steve,
 
Just a few points to put things in perspective.
 
1.	I have only read a few McLeod novels so far, but he is Scottish
and seems to clearly understand the differences between libertarian and
neo-liberal.  So I'm not convinced this is necessarily a continental
difference.  
2.	Have you seen the movie "Before Night Falls?"  Reinaldo Arenas
was a gay Cuban who was ostracized in Castro's socialist Cuba for the
crime of being gay. One of the issues raised by libertarian leftism is
how can we created a more equalitarian society in which individuals are
not trampled over in the name of collectivism.  Certainly, for all its
faults, the progressive politics of the past twenty years has raised
some issues that shouldn't be abandoned.    
3.	Traditionally, the project of socialism has been to create a
worker's state in which there is full employment for all.  Many have
argued from a more libertarian perspective, including Negri and Hardt in
Empire, that this misses the point. The job economy is a historical
structure that is now being undermined by technological development. The
real goal should be to end to coercion that forces people to work merely
in order to survive.  It is possible to envision a society in which
other arrangements than that of the job economy would be possible.  This
does not mean the end of work, either paid or unpaid.  It does entail a
different kind of structure, however, that is very different from the
old models offered by traditional socialism or capitalism. For me,
libertarian leftist means thinking about these issues in a new way, one
that is more relevant to our future. 
 
Obviously, with the world on the brink, we have more immediate concerns,
but simply agitating against the war is not enough, important as that
is.  It seems clear that we must begin to link the issues of peace with
the issues raised by the so-called 'anti-globalism' movement - the
globalism from below movement.  At some point we must begin thinking
about what kind of world we should realize to replace the neo-liberal
one we currently have.  
 
You need to be more specific about the kind of system you are
advocating.  Do you see it as merely collectivist?  
 
The cyborg is not merely a conceptual construct.  It is also not merely
about liberating ourselves through technology, a la Wired magazine.  It
does, however, suggest more libertarian possibilities in a different
kind of world.  
 
Macleod doesn't seem to have the problems you do about cyborgs.  You
said in previous you have read McLeod and liked him.  Don't you see that
he is making similar arguments in his novels to the kind Shawn is
making?  
 
Do you disagree with this interpretation of McLeod or just disagree with
what McLeod says as well?
 
Eric
 
 
 

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Steve,

 

Just a few points to put things in perspective.

 

  1. I have only read a few McLeod novels so far, but he is Scottish and seems to clearly understand the differences between libertarian and neo-liberal.  So I’m not convinced this is necessarily a continental difference. 
  2. Have you seen the movie “Before Night Falls?”  Reinaldo Arenas was a gay Cuban who was ostracized in Castro’s socialist Cuba for the crime of being gay. One of the issues raised by libertarian leftism is how can we created a more equalitarian society in which individuals are not trampled over in the name of collectivism.  Certainly, for all its faults, the progressive politics of the past twenty years has raised some issues that shouldn’t be abandoned.    
  3. Traditionally, the project of socialism has been to create a worker’s state in which there is full employment for all.  Many have argued from a more libertarian perspective, including Negri and Hardt in Empire, that this misses the point. The job economy is a historical structure that is now being undermined by technological development. The real goal should be to end to coercion that forces people to work merely in order to survive.  It is possible to envision a society in which other arrangements than that of the job economy would be possible.  This does not mean the end of work, either paid or unpaid.  It does entail a different kind of structure, however, that is very different from the old models offered by traditional socialism or capitalism. For me, libertarian leftist means thinking about these issues in a new way, one that is more relevant to our future.

 

Obviously, with the world on the brink, we have more immediate concerns, but simply agitating against the war is not enough, important as that is.  It seems clear that we must begin to link the issues of peace with the issues raised by the so-called ‘anti-globalism’ movement – the globalism from below movement.  At some point we must begin thinking about what kind of world we should realize to replace the neo-liberal one we currently have. 

 

You need to be more specific about the kind of system you are advocating.  Do you see it as merely collectivist? 

 

The cyborg is not merely a conceptual construct.  It is also not merely about liberating ourselves through technology, a la Wired magazine.  It does, however, suggest more libertarian possibilities in a different kind of world.  

 

Macleod doesn’t seem to have the problems you do about cyborgs.  You said in previous you have read McLeod and liked him.  Don’t you see that he is making similar arguments in his novels to the kind Shawn is making?  

 

Do you disagree with this interpretation of McLeod or just disagree with what McLeod says as well?

 

Eric

 

 

 


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