File spoon-archives/lyotard.archive/lyotard_2003/lyotard.0305, message 12


Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 03:27:30 +1100
From: hbone <hbone-AT-optonline.net>
Subject: Re: love and difference - feeling, reacting


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_LAD1NSTRCT5L9wCP5WZrFA)

Geof wrote: 

> Hugh, Don, All,
> 
> Your mention of "Grief is the price we pay for love" reminds me of Charles M. 
> Schultz, the creator of Peanuts.  Charlie, his zig-zagged shirt loopy haired 
> boy, often exclaims, "Good Grief."  This pairing, this grief, this gravity is, 
> perhaps, the most innocent of profanities--more innocent than any innocence in 
> a Levinasian sense, or, perhaps, in a Baudrillardian sense a hyper-innocence, a 
> more innocent-than-innocent that causes a complete re-reading of Peanuts.  
Reading is experiencing words.  Grieving is experiencing the loss of loved ones. Love and grief are emotional events.  

Skillful authors use words to describe their personal feelings, emotions.  Novelists describe the emotions of their characters.  Writers have limited access to the emotions of others via language.  

The experience of love and grief is first-person experience.  

> 
> Who was the distinguished person?  
Queen of England

>What caused this person to speak out on behalf of the extinguished?
First, the memorial service was for the survivors.  The Queen's message was for survivors.
Rituals, like flowers, are for the living.  Think of the people nearest and dearest to you 
who are now deceased.  You honor their memory, you embrace/console survivors. .

>Why couldn't they be included? 
The "extinguished"?   If one believes in life after death, the extinguished have the attributes the believer thinks they have.  How can they be included if they can't be reached?
My belief is that the "extinguished" "live" only in the memories of those they left behind.

> person's non-presence contribute to the murmur that shot through the re-
> presentation of "Good Grief"?   
Non-presence was incidental, irrelevant.  As you might imagine, a memorial service is not a comic strip.

> "Good grief."  Good-God grief.  God grief.  Grieving God.  Grieving gods.  
If you say so.,

 > Good grief, Charlie Brown, we love you, your zig-zagged sweater, and you missed 
> football kicks (though we also love Lucy and her pulling such footballs away 
> and your swirling fall.)
Yes.  Everyone loved Charley Brown, but not the way survirors loved their parents and children who perished with the twin towers.

> Good grief = Love, the sincerity of the approach, the intent of the pulling 
> away, the vortex of the swirl, the fall, and the picking up again...
I don't know what these words are supposed to mean.

> "Good grief, Charlie Brown" = Love = "Repetition is a form of change" 
You equations, not mine..

regards,
Hugh


~^~^*~^~^~^~*^~*~


> g    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting hbone <hbone-AT-optonline.net>:
> 
> > Don/All,
> > 
> > Someone present at a memorial service for victims of 9/11, which was held at
> > St. Thomas Church in New York, recalls that a letter read from a
> > distinguished person
> > who couldn't be there, included the words:
> > 
> > "Grief is the price we pay for love".
> > 
> > That caused a sensation to run through the audience, and afterward they
> > seemed to feel  better
> > 
> > Hugh..
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 

--Boundary_(ID_LAD1NSTRCT5L9wCP5WZrFA)

HTML VERSION:

Geof wrote:
> Hugh, Don, All,
>
> Your mention of "Grief is the price we pay for love" reminds me of Charles M.
> Schultz, the creator of Peanuts.  Charlie, his zig-zagged shirt loopy haired
> boy, often exclaims, "Good Grief."  This pairing, this grief, this gravity is,
> perhaps, the most innocent of profanities--more innocent than any innocence in
> a Levinasian sense, or, perhaps, in a Baudrillardian sense a hyper-innocence, a
> more innocent-than-innocent that causes a complete re-reading of Peanuts. 
Reading is experiencing words.  Grieving is experiencing the loss of loved ones. Love and grief are emotional events.  
 
Skillful authors use words to describe their personal feelings, emotions.  Novelists describe the emotions of their characters.  Writers have limited access to the emotions of others via language. 
 
The experience of love and grief is first-person experience. 

>
> Who was the distinguished person? 
Queen of England
 
>What caused this person to speak out on behalf of the extinguished?
First, the memorial service was for the survivors.  The Queen's message was for survivors.
Rituals, like flowers, are for the living.  Think of the people nearest and dearest to you
who are now deceased.  You honor their memory, you embrace/console survivors. .
 
>Why couldn't they be included?
The "extinguished"?   If one believes in life after death, the extinguished have the attributes the believer thinks they have.  How can they be included if they can't be reached?
My belief is that the "extinguished" "live" only in the memories of those they left behind.
 
> person's non-presence contribute to the murmur that shot through the re-
> presentation of "Good Grief"?   
Non-presence was incidental, irrelevant.  As you might imagine, a memorial service is not a comic strip.
 
> "Good grief."  Good-God grief.  God grief.  Grieving God.  Grieving gods.  
If you say so.,
 
 > Good grief, Charlie Brown, we love you, your zig-zagged sweater, and you missed
> football kicks (though we also love Lucy and her pulling such footballs away
> and your swirling fall.)
Yes.  Everyone loved Charley Brown, but not the way survirors loved their parents and children who perished with the twin towers.

> Good grief = Love, the sincerity of the approach, the intent of the pulling
> away, the vortex of the swirl, the fall, and the picking up again...
I don't know what these words are supposed to mean.

> "Good grief, Charlie Brown" = Love = "Repetition is a form of change"
You equations, not mine..
regards,
Hugh
 
 
~^~^*~^~^~^~*^~*~
 
 
> g   
>
>
>
>
> Quoting hbone <
hbone-AT-optonline.net>:
>
> > Don/All,
> >
> > Someone present at a memorial service for victims of 9/11, which was held at
> > St. Thomas Church in New York, recalls that a letter read from a
> > distinguished person
> > who couldn't be there, included the words:
> >
> > "Grief is the price we pay for love".
> >
> > That caused a sensation to run through the audience, and afterward they
> > seemed to feel  better
> >
> > Hugh..
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--Boundary_(ID_LAD1NSTRCT5L9wCP5WZrFA)--

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