File spoon-archives/lyotard.archive/lyotard_2004/lyotard.0408, message 18


Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 09:03:16 +0100
From: "steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk" <steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Le doeff - lyotard interview


geof

To refer to the Moore film again - you can tell that the 'film' has 
engaged in trying to tell the truth,  because of the extent to which the 
film and Moore is being attacked.

Le Doeuff: " ... Elizabeth Grosz, whose book opens with a deferential 
summary of the philosophy of a few great Parisen demigods, all men of 
course, and of their predecessors, the great (sic) antihumanists of 
the19th C, Marx, Frued and Neitzsche, the whole lot described as 'the 
intellectual background and theoretical context of French feminisms...' 
in other words good subversion is carried out under the tutelage of a 
cohort of male thinkers..."  The question that this quote is in the 
midst of is whether the designating a form of feminity radically 
different from existing philosophy, rationality, logic and education 
with the associated question of being able to read texts accurately, or 
even be able to read at all exists in a sycophantic relationship to the 
given 'male thinkers'.  The circular reason being that to suggest that a 
given form of reason is male, masculine creates a self-denigration ---

I can't help but wonder what they think of the Curies, M. Klein, West 
(without whom the helix could not have been created)....

I suppose that i don't think that his thought was robust at this time... 
It's taken a very short time to fall into crisis and disarray...

and so on

steve

gvcarter-AT-purdue.edu wrote:

>eric/steve/all, 
>
>  enjoyed returning to this interview of l's for its insight and the always 
>interesting line of questioning olson brings out in these jac interviews.  
>(olson has another jac interview w/ derrida, and his _rhetoric and composition 
>as intellectual work_ (2002) is, perhaps, the most important edited collection 
>of essays to appear in the rhet/comp field in the couple years.)
>
>lyotard's lament over the relative absence of the body in philosophical 
>discourse is discerning and were i to commend an increasing body of work on the 
>body to his second daughter, i would have commend the work of elizabeth grosz, 
>particularly _volatile bodies_ (1994).  grosz extends the thinking nietzsche, 
>lacan, freud, merleau-ponty, and deleuze and guattari into ways that are add 
>another register to discussions that might otherwise refuse to dis/engage the 
>notion of other/wise.  in particular, grosz is interested in the invaginated 
>possibilisms of moebius strip.
>
>possibilisms rather than post-modernism; for as lyotard reminds, he's not much 
>interested in any '-isms' as such, but rather a sense of experiment and play w/ 
>works that may take 30 years for people to finally get to and starting working 
>out of.  
>
>interesting that lyotard finds both the _postmodern condition_ and the 
>_differend_ as inadequate to what he's trying to do.  he also, of course, 
>disavowed the _libidinal economy_.  ....such discomfort a good indication of 
>robust thought, yes?
>
>best,
>
>geof        
>
> 
>
>
>Quoting "steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk" <steve.devos-AT-krokodile.co.uk>:
>
>  
>
>>eric/all
>>
>>The text makes interesting reading as we contine to work out how to 
>>re-engage with universal issues (egalitarianism anyone?) and continue to 
>>think how to resist the position that Lyotard takes in the text when he 
>>says 'Capitalism is the only solution'. I read the text as proposing 
>>that the false universalism of capitalism was and remains inevitable, in 
>>this sense then he is occupying the same territory as Fukuyama declaring 
>>'the end of history' -- strange how naive this seems now.
>>
>>"...Your question assumes that women are in possession of a feminine 
>>principle and that men are inhabited exclusively by a male way of 
>>thinking and doing. This is a prejudice. That's why I have no clear 
>>relationship with feminists. It seems to me after having read Freud, and 
>>not only Freud but also feminist psychoanalytic writers, that sex 
>>difference is not only biological difference, nor social studies 
>>difference; it's some­thing else, quite mysterious, which is 
>>incorporated in each of us, women or men, a difference which is 
>>internal, a capacity...." Someone should have told Lyotard that Melenie 
>>Klein cannot be described as a feminist merely a great psychoanalyst, a 
>>great scientist.... instead he makes the ridiculous error of only 
>>referring to 'writers' - but then Klein and Freud would both have 
>>rejected such an unquantifiable notion as 'a capacity', perhaps not Jung 
>>however. Even in the discarded early freudian model this 'capacity' has 
>>a name...
>>
>>'perhaps it's to late for me' he says in relation to feminist theorists 
>>but the same could be said about the positive relation he has with 
>>capitalist parlimentary democracy...
>>
>>It's deeply sad article perhaps he was already ill by then.
>>
>>best
>>steve
>>
>>Eric wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>This discussion on feminism interests me because I recently came across
>>>an old interview with Lyotard that clarifies, for me at least, his
>>>position on feminism in a way his written essays never did.  While it
>>>can't be described as a militant political feminism, his take on it
>>>resembles Derrida's 'sexual otherwise' insofar as it stands outside both
>>>biology and cultural differences.  
>>>
>>>Instead, Lyotard connect feminism with his idea of passibility and
>>>places this concept at the center of his philosophy in a way that he
>>>seldom does very explicitly after Libidinal Economy. (The reference to
>>>Clinton's information highway seems to place this essay sometime in the
>>>mid to late nineties.)
>>>
>>>My own feeling is that a feminist might react somewhat negatively to
>>>some of the things he says here and I found his acceptance of capitalism
>>>much more fatalistic than his other writings suggest.  I am curious
>>>about what comments others have to say about this interview and what
>>>relation, if any, these concepts have with those of Derrida's.  
>>>
>>>In my opinion, I have always felt the Lyotard's thoughts on possibility
>>>and receptivity are much more important than his stance on differences
>>>and his critique of metanarratives.
>>>
>>>Anyway, here is the link.
>>>
>>>eric
>>>   
>>>http://jac.gsu.edu/jac/15.3/Articles/1.htm
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


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