Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 17:38:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: M-G: Engels on ancient Greece & split between sexes




On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, Rolf Martens wrote:

> INTRO NOTE:
> 
> Present-day putrefuing bourgeois-imperialist society i.a. is trying 
> to exacerbate a split between men and women, is conducting a 
> campaign *against* normal ordinary sex and *for* all kinds of
> perversions. In an article in December 1996 on the nasty 
> Dutroux-affair in Belgium, the German ex-Marxist group the 
> Klasberries, <klasber-AT-aol.com>, basically correctly attacked the 
> latter part of that campaign while at the same time not seeing the 
> former but in fact in part supporting it. 
> 
> My supporting that point in the Klasberries' article in which they
> opposed the recent idea by some bourgeois states, massively
> supported by the ultra-reactionary media, of instituting so-called 
> "same-sex marriages", as part of those man-woman splitting 
> activities of theirs, was attacked by some writers. They, or some
> of them, argued that homosexuality, which I had written that I, 
> concurring with the (today essentially conservative-bourgeois) 
> Klasberries and also with i.a. Engels as well as with the great
> majority of workers, held to be a very negative phenomenon, 
> was not so at all but was to be considered a "normal human
> activity" which there "had always been and would always be".
> 
> But this phenomenon in reality has certain causes in society and
> culture, above all that split between the sexes that was one
> by-product of the institution, in ancient history, of the family 
> system instead of that other basic system that existed more or
> less everywhere on earth before it.
> 
> Some writers also held that the characterization of sodomy as
> a negative thing had "nothing to do with" or even was "opposed
> to" Marxism. They are wrong on this point too. Historically,
> the phenomeon arose (as far as I understand) as one result of 
> that suppression of women which was caused by the newly 
> emerging family system.
> 

Rolf,

A few questions. What is your view of social movements which have
goals of getting some beneficial reforms from the bourgeois state?
For example, affirmative action for African-Americans and similar
job and education opportunities for the "scheduled" (read "lower")
castes and tribes in India? The opposition to these equal-opportunity
programs has come from certain sections of the proletariat and also
ruling class of these countries (for example, Prop 209 abolishing
affirmative action in California supported by the white working class
and their local rulers). Would not supporting affirmative action
create a "split" between the white and African-American workers?

What about national liberation movements, which  you presumably support?
Does that not create a split between the first-world and third-world
proletariat?

As regards gay movements, it is true from the evidence that such
questions have become important in the first world (but not in the
third at present) and will have to be addressed. One should, of course,
adopt a critical attitude, but at the same time one should be extremely
careful of *not even appear* to be siding with the ruling class and
the fundamentalist reactionaries and associated fascists who want to
oppress gay people. The causes of homosexuality (genetic, environmental)
and whether or not it is a "perversion" is a *separate* issue. This
distinction should be kept in mind. In class society, supporting an
*oppresed* group in their fight for attaining basic rights (non-
discrimination in jobs, housing, education, etc.), albeit bourgeois,
is the proper duty and it does not mean that one encourages the
practice of that particular group. The decision of whether such a group
exists and also its oppression, will, of course, have to be made on
empirical evidence.

Once again, this campaign for gay marriages is not a conspiracy of the
bourgeoise to split men from women. There is a division among them
on how to address this issue.

Sid
  

  



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