From: Zeynep Tufekcioglu <zeynept-AT-turk.net>
Subject: Re: M-G: Klasberries get US/"Nobleman" boot threat on M-I
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 11:45:09 +0000


Rolf writes on M-G:

>From a friendly source, I got the below forwarded message
>from that M-I list on which, if I'm correctly informed,
>you're not allowed to maintain that another subscriber is
>or may be a cop.
>
>That rule came into being, I suppose, on account of the 
>very successful "Quispe" fight on the old "M1" last April-June
>and perhaps in some small part directly because of my 140 kB
>5-part posting on 30.06.96 "Why do I think Chris is a cop?",
>which referred to that fight and to one of "Quispe's" allies,
>Chris Burford.
>
>It does hint at some cops being involved in the running of
>those Spoon Collective lists, doesn't it? But I think the
>existence of these lists is a good thing anyway.
>
>Now, recently, there obviously was posted a threat on that
>list, by Luis "Nobleman" Project (whose not too progressive
>standpoint on certain issues became clear in some debates on "M1") 
>against the Klasberries, that if they didn't at once stop saying 
>that one must suspect the "MRTA" hosting-taking action still going 
>on in Lima just to be the work of US imperialism intending above
>all to make trouble for the (in part) rivalling Japanese,
>he would *call on the moderators to throw them out*.

Uh. I'm one of the "cops" moderating the Marxism-International list. The
rule was formulated to stop people to call their political opponents cops
without a shred of proof when they ran out of arguments or got lazy. If you
have a serious case that someone is a cop, you can contact the moderators
and ask that person be kicked off.

As for Marxism-International, so far we didn't have to expell a single
member. We've never censored for *political* insults and/or accusations. We
will never expell anyone because of a political position.

However, we also won't have a single member occupying 70% of the list
volume. We're trying to keep the volume managable for everyone, especially
those of us in the third world countries or without office jobs who have to
pay for each time they go on-line. We are trying to use the internet to
reach activists and revolutionaries around the world, not only in cozy first
world jobs. 

For the record, I'm posting the info-sheet of Marxism-International.

Zeynep
Istanbul


>Marxism-International is a moderated list intended to facilitate general 
>discussion of Marxism, with an eye toward enabling the participation of 
>people from all around the world, and toward fostering and developing 
>activism. It is an open, nonsectarian list, inviting participation from 
>every kind of Marxist and revolutionary thought.
>
>M-I is a list for serious discussion, not the trivial name-calling and 
>ego-waving so commonly seen on the Internet. It is, in fact, an attempt 
>to see if the Internet can be a useful tool for the left, beyond the 
>mere dissemination of information. People with real political problems 
>to address are welcome -- those who sit in front of a computer because 
>no one in real life will listen to them may as well stay away.
>
>The moderators are committed to political freedom, and no attempt at 
>censorship based on opinions or intellectual content will be made. 
>However, a complete lack of regulation leads to effective lack of 
>freedom, as nonsense proliferates and people with work to do become less 
>and less willing to sift through all the chaff for the occasional kernel 
>of wheat. This is especially true for people in "third world" countries, 
>where links are slow and time spent downloading is expensive. Since this 
>is the case, the list will adhere to the following set of rules:
>
>1.  No more than three posts a day.  A single post may be in response to
>more than one thread, within reason; however, this should not be done
>merely to circumvent the "three post a day" rule.  Flexibility will be
>shown when someone has only a question, asking for clarification.
>
>2. Active effort to keep repetititions to a minimum. The archives of the 
>list will be publicly available. All participants are expected to put 
>forth serious effort to contribute to and encourage relevant discussion.  
>
>3. No sexist/racist/etc. remarks.
>
>4. No accusations of the type that a list member is a cop. Anyone who 
>thinks s/he has a case, should privately mail the moderators producing 
>the evidence.
>
>5. Posting private e-mail to the list without the consent of the sender is
>forbidden. While the moderators have no wish to "moderate" private e-mail,
>the moderators should be contacted regarding any complaints about
>unsolicited e-mail from other subscribers.
>
>Rule enforcement:
>Anyone deemed to be breaching the rules (according to the majority of 
>the moderators) will be warned twice privately. The third time, the 
>first two warnings will be made public along with the the third warning. 
>Fourth time - suspension from the list until the suspended person agrees 
>to adhere to the rules, in any case at least two weeks. Two suspensions, 
>and the expulsion is permanent.
>
>These rules are strictly provisional, and will be changed as necessary. 
>The idea is to develop a political culture and consciousness on the list 
>that enables and actually encourages productive work; once such a 
>culture is developed, the rules may well be relaxed. Be warned: no 
>attempts to be disruptive in a "legitimate" way by finessing the rules 
>will be tolerated -- the decision of the moderators is final.
>
>We understand that some participants are partisans of particular 
>interpretations of marxism. Intelligent defense of these interpretations 
>are welcome. Excessive recitations of sectarian dogma will be 
>discouraged.



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