Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:20:11 +0100 (MET)
Subject: M-G: Re:  M-I: Fawlty Towers


Malgosia writes;

>Can I straighten the record a bit here?  This seems to be a recurring
>confusion on Lou's part:
>
>> The Spoons Collective, minus Hans, met in NY last summer. I was
>> invited, as was Doug Henwood. The consensus was that Robert Malecki was
>> destroying the Marxism list, not me. (Odd that I would even be invited, if
>> I was such a great destroyer.)

No not odd at all. In fact it was the Malgosia and the "ivory tower" that 
had the power at Jefferson Village. And when a couple of authodox 
Trotskyists and in fact Aldolfo (who i defended in this case) walked in and 
the ivory tower went crazy. First they built M2 with special rules. And only 
later on did the discussion of MI come up. In fact their is only one reason 
that I supported the creation of MI and that was Zeynep's correct position 
on having a list which cut posts to 3 a day to stop some of the "maradorers" 
including myself who usually has a lot to say. This in order to create a 
forum for a lot of people Internationally who can not afford to go through 
hundreds of letters in the flame wars that pop up now and again.

So to give some balance to Malgosia and his "ivory tower" views and *real* 
actions on M1 I submit the following other side of the ivory tower league 
who unlike Zeynep really did try and destroy M1 not once but twice!

Bob Malecki

Jefferson Village from a Communist Workers eyes!

Analisis of the Struggle at Jefferson Village!

As it appears that the open "Marxism M1 list at Jefferson Village will soon 
end and be replaced with the line of many small moderated groups under the 
control of the present majority and powers that be in this American centered 
creation I find it perhaps in place to give my views on the struggle that 
has been taking place, the forces and powers in back of that struggle in 
relation to creating a communist Internationalist List for all trends in the 
workers movement and poor and working class people be they red, white, black 
or yellow can discuss our common future.

At the beginning of the present struggle and concious turn by the present 
majority and powers at Jefferson Village I wrote the following:

"Marxism" at Jefferson Village "reorganises!"

Well now it is official. The spoon at Jefferson village has decided to 
reorganise the list and discussion. Naturally, like class struggle, all 
things change. The actors move in different directions and the battles 
draw lines even here in cyberspace.

Despite the rosy picture presented by spoon as "reorganisation" one must 
say that the reorganisation is something that is connected to the history 
of M1 and M2 lists.

The people involved, at least those who have been here for a while, is the 
dynamic force in this new reorientation. These people including myself is 
the human material with all of its various ideological and living experience 
in interaction which has brought about the present state of things.

The remarkable think about this process is how the cyberspace is being used 
to enforce all of these political and personal *real* life experiences. 
Thus trying to turn this media into deviding up this human material into 
various files where they can survive in peaceful bliss without being 
contaminated by a virus from the other rich political and personal 
backgrounds of those who claim to be "marxist" orientated. A family of 
revolutionaries that can exist, at least in cyberspace, in seperate 
little rooms where they feel comfortable.

Sort of like packing lollipops in individual or group plastic bags to keep 
them sterile for the uninformed consumer...Even better would be the history 
of the "new" leftwhich has led a gruopie existence especially amongst 
intellectual circles for a rather long time. 

It appears that the spoon is looking for organisational and moderation 
forms to strenghen this process of groupie existence of the left on 
Internet. In other words a little fack or room for each member or family 
to move into and be happy with their convictions.

How quaint! I think that it is a very logical outcome of the last months 
of struggle. Especially amongst the intellectuals on this list whos politics 
is connected to presenting their views to small groups of polite people who 
don,t have to worry about where the next meal is coming from or have been 
unemployed for months or years.

However i defend free speech and even the right to live in isolation and 
groupie existence even for those that prefer this alternative. However i 
do intend to subscribe to all of the new groups and try to follow the rules 
in order to make life uncomfortable for my political opponents. Or will i 
be prevented from doing this by my political opponents? Thus proving;

That  the present "reorganisation" is not more then a physical expression 
of the present groupie and individualist life that our "marxists" on this 
list appear to prefer in private little rooms rather then and open forum 
where ideas can clash.

Because it is quite clear there are certain individuals that are trying to 
use this reorganisation as a tool to gag people from participating in the 
debate. Naturally i defend the right of people to discuss in anyway they 
want to the questions facing those who claim to be "marxist"..

However to organise the discussion along the sectarian and groupie 
principals that the left has so long been doing in real life and raising 
it to a principle under the guise of "reorganisation" would be criminal. 
In fact, only a broad and open discussion with all political tendencies 
with people from all walks of life can show the way forward.

We have nothing to lose but our chains and the chains that those who will 
gag a free and open discussion will put on us under the guise of moderation 
and reorganisation. The best thing that can happen to people is to be 
confronted with living ideas and politics is through and open clash on 
and open forum where moderation is directed only against facist 
provacateurs and *real* cops!

Those who need to hide behind closed and moderated doors have something 
to hide or are afraid that there politics can not stand up to open and 
real confrontation are the only ones who gain by building walls around 
themselves with this new orientation by the spoon. This i,m afraid, despite 
all the rhetoric, is the underlying reason for the new reorganisation of the 
lists.

Now as we draw near to the end of the m1 list at Jefferson Village this 
analisis has proved quite true! But one should add that in the process of 
the struggle the lines became clearer and sharper as the actors took 
positions and began to carry out the battle which is presently raging.

But it also has showed some interesting turns that raise some important 
questions for Communist and poor and working class people coming on line to 
the Internet. One of the first questions is posed by the clear domination of 
Americans on the lists of Jefferson Village and that the technology for 
carrying on a discussion is in the hands of a few who can pull the plug at 
any time. Thus on a small scale Jefferson village has showed that power (!) 
is in the hands of those who control the buttons and tecnology. 

Thus Internet being a bougeois media controlled by the capitalist and 
imperialists internationally can pull the plug in the future in a period of 
wars and revolutions. 

The Americans and the present reformist and centrist petty bougeois majority 
of new leftists can it appears pull the plug when they see that their 
politics are being attacked from the left or by anyone who threatens the 
present majority with the finger on the button.

Naturally if one were to go back over a period of time on the M1 list, one 
would see the first struggle around the creation of M2 by the ivory tower 
who reacted to the Peruvian Stalinists walking in and fight for their line. 
But also some of the "Trotskyists" trends who took up the Mantle to do 
battle. The creation of M2 by spoon was a trial and escape hatch for the 
petty bougeois envionment that existed and felt threatened by the Peruvian 
Maoists with their pick up the gun rhetoric. But when some of the 
Trotskyists currents took on the maoists and others that were left
a new devision took place with the more reformists and right wing trends 
left on M1 became more enraged and desperate as the struggle developed. 
Because they had no political answers they turned to slander against the 
proletarian wing of the list and went outside to the spoon and m2 in order 
to block with the petty bougeois intellectualls to present the new line of 
many moderated lists. Thus a block with the petty bourgeois ivory tower 
component on Spoon and M2 joined hands with the right wing which was left on 
M1 in order to stop the Stalinists and Trotskyist trends by gagging, 
exclusion, expulsion and so on.

It was the classical reaction by the right, center wing on M1 and the petty 
bougeoisie on spoon and m2 to defend themselves from Internet destruction on 
the lists. With the power in their hands they did not need ideas to win the 
struggle of ideas, just rules and the power over the technology at Jefferson 
Village which the Americans and the right wing have at this point.

However the battle has only begun on Internet. It will continue and grow 
just as in real life  the reformists and centrists betray poor and working 
class people and the petty bougeoisie become more historical as the crisis 
deepens. The poor and working class will have to create their own organs of 
power along with the Bolshevik leadership which must take form if we are 
going to take power in the future. One of those goals will be to wrip out of 
the hands the control of this media by capitalists and imperialists, but 
also their lackies the petty bougeoisie who dominate and control this media.

In the final analisis that is what it all comes down too. The dictatorship 
of poor and working class people over this media or the other side. There is 
no way for compromise. Class war is class war everywhere and on this media 
too. So nothing changes that concrete fact now does it.

Towards a Communist Internationalist list for poor and working class people 
open to all under present conditions of power in the hands of our class 
enemies and political traitors must be seen as a gift, if at all possible, 
under the present circumstances. A gift that can be given and taken away by 
those in power. Don,t ever forget it (!) and rely on your own power in the 
struggle. What the capitalist or reformist and centrists traitors can give, 
they can take away at their whim. Because they have the power in their hands 
and if threatened will use that power! The point is to change it by fighting 
for workers governments everywhere that will expropriate the expropriaters 
including this media.

Warm Regards
Bob Malecki

 





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