File spoon-archives/marxism-general.archive/marxism-general_1997/97-01-12.050, message 50


Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 20:57:36 -0500
Subject: Re: M-G: Re: family and Marxism


Leslaw Smutek wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, Vladimir Bilenkin wrote:
> >
> > Don't panic, Justin. Nobody will take away the grand-grandchildren of your
> > children nor put their women in collective use. The family will be abolished
> > as a social institution and ideology. I don't know what you mean by "family
> > relations," but the only relations with sexual content after the Family is gone
> > will be those conditioned by purely personal attractions. And no more Oedipean
> > triangles, but collective upbringing of children, instead. No more parental
> > "love" of the bourgeois individual to his live property but "free association"
> > of children and adults alike. Sounds "inhuman", eh? It actually is, from the
> > ex profundis our "humanity."
> >
> > Vladimir
> 
>         Vladimir,
> 
>         I must say I was shocked to read what you've written about the
> family, the abolition of it as well as "collective upbringing of
> children". In a way I do understand why you want to do away with the
> family. After all, it seems to be one of very few institutions left which
> still clings to traditional values and shapes its members in an individual
> way. 

I am sorry for unintentionally inflicting this emotional trauma upon you, Leszek.
But what I said was a commonplace for marxists and since this is a marxist list
you should brace yourself for even more outrageous opinions to hear. You are 
partly correct as to the reasons why I (and some other people) believe that 
communist society is unthinkable without the abolishion of the family. It is, 
of course,  very important to break the mechanism by which conservative and 
reactionary ideologies are reproduced and the socialization of children as bourgeois
individualists is achieved. And you correctly perceive that the family provides 
this mechanism with its most vital agency.  What you still fail to grasp is that 
we - revolutionary marxists or communists - consider this task as secondary, nay,
infinitismally small in comparison with the abolishion of the family *as such.*


>"Collective upbringing of children" would put an end to any variety
> of opinions and ideas - the same thing has already happened in most state
> owned schools, hasn't it? 

This proposition is faulty both theoretically and logically. Theoretically, 
because "state" and "collective" mean very different things in Marxist theory.
Logically, it's an empty tautology that avoids the task of proving its 
factual assumption.


>It is curious to note that elimination of
> private schools is always the first step in any leftist revolution. That
> is why I have always wondered why leftist or left-wing humanists are never
> against such ideas - after all these ideas mean the end of differentiation
> and one, uniform system of thought. 

Sorry , but since I do not belong to either of the groups whose politics 
puzzles you, I cant't tell you what their motifs are. I am against private schools
as undemocratic institutions, outside of the control of society and perpetuating
the class system, privilege, etc. You logic however is faulty again. First,
you need to demonstrate that no private schools equals conformity, and only than
reproach those well-meaning people. I hope my friendly criticisms do not offend 
you, for I recall your expressing a strong belief in openness to any reasonable and 
logical argumentation.

>Where will human freedom go then? What
> will happen to discussions, arguments, even quarrels and rows? Instead of
> them, you will have a collection of the same units, oops, people
> - thinking the same, acting the same, feeling the same. IF YOU OPT FOR
> SUCH A SOCIETY, PLEASE HAVE ME EXCLUDED.

I can't see what all this has to do with abolishing the family and collective
upbringing of the young. My guess is that you've got hooked on some sort of 
of anti-communist "dystopian" literature. 

>         One more thing. Have you ever been to a home of unwanted children?

	Yes.
> Have you ever witnessed the tragedy of children who can't find their
> foster parents. 

	No.

Have you ever seen this highly acclaimed "collective
> upbringing of children"? 

	Yes, and miss it terribly, even if it was very far away from trully
"collective."

>Well, I have. And I don't want to anymore.

	Granted. But what it has to do with other people's "wants"?
	


> PS. Does the name of Pavko Morozov ring the bell in your memory? (The
> irony is implied, I'm sorry to say)

	Yes, this name is familiar to me. A tragic story, to my knowledge,
but am ready to consider your interpretation of it.

Vladimir


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