Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:35:02 +0100 (MET)
Subject: M-G: Re: M-I: Some Considerations -Mental and Physical Labour


Is there something wrong with the software at Jefferson village? I recieved 
this post as well as others four times! All of them from M-I!

Anyway I'm glad that Viray agreees because the stuff in the original about 
computers was not clear at all.

Bob Malecki
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Bob

>After the responses by Rob Schaap and Rob Malecki, I re-read my post and I
>feel some clarifications are necessary. It is regretted that non repetition
>of certain basics, which I assumed as commonly accepted  has led to this
>misunderstanding. 
>
>The basics are: a) Contradictions within the capitalist society will create
>conditions for its own destruction. b)The working class will (and will have
>to) take over political power to lay foundations of the next stage in the
>development of productive forces, by taking over ownership of the means of
>production and *control*. c)The dictatorship of the proletariat will be the
>period of transition from post-capitalism to socialism.
>
>I thought the aim of this list, is to promote a dialogue between marxists,
>who understood and agreed on the basics and that there is no necessity to
>repeat and elaborate them at every turn. This would particularly be
>necessary, when the posts have to be as brief as possible so that there may
>be an economy of time to facilitate attetion for all posts in a given day.
>
>I must thank both Robs, for clarifying the position for me. I agree
>completely with
>Rob Malecki.
>
>>>>[The technical capacity of computers is not the only criterion upon which
>>>>speculation about their role in the future should be done.  Computers may
>>>>lead  people to redefine managers and supervisors - they do not replace
>>>>them.  Computers will always play the game their operators play, whether
>>>>they be CEOs or central planners - in the latter case political control and
>>>>economic control are potentially even more concentrated than in the former.
>> 
>>
>>>>To make more of the point: if the computer is a universally accessible
>>>>tool, well, that might be a good thing for checking autocracy - but it is
>>>>not computers who will decide whether they will be universally accessible -
>>>>that's a decision for humans.  Always is.
>
>>Ahh, What are you trying to say here Rob? Do you mean that the computer is 
>>just another technical invention which like most things depends on who 
>>controls them
>>which decides the future?
>
>>If it is I agree! 
>
>>However this guy Viray is just full of shit. As if a computer can change the 
>>fundementals in class struggle. Computers like anything else is a weapon 
>>either in the hands of the poor and working class and its organisdations or 
>>it is in the hands of its class enemies. The only thing we (the Proletariat) 
>>have to do is see to it that this powerful technical weapon is controlled by 
>>the state power of the working class so that it is not used by the class 
>>enemy to regain power once we get rid of them..





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