Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:26:38 +0100 (MET)
Subject: M-G: Re: degenerate workers states


Neil writes;
>RE: Your political  "dodge ball' reply to Aaron S.1/27
>Your Trotskyist  "Crisis of leadership" mantra 
>has gone rancid. You call this a 'programme'?
>A party  serving ANY exploiter  class and reaction could 
>prate this stuff! And the ruling class parties 
>are a lot better at this demagoguery than are even  the
>trots!

Interesting Neil. The latest round really stirred up a hornets nest for the 
ultra lefts. You openly admit that the bougeois democracies were and are 
better better then the ex-degenerated Soviet Union and the deformed workers 
states former east block countries,China Vietnam North Korea and Vietnam. 
This little secret which slipped out (in fact it has been known for years) 
puts the ultra lefts like yourself and friends squarely on the side of 
imperialism in any and all confrontations with these countries. And then you 
have the balls to counter with this meager "party who serves the exploiter 
class" shit. On this particular question  Trotskyists have been very clear 
in saying that we are for Social revolutions in capitalist and imperialist 
countries and political revolutions in the deformed and former degenerated 
workers state!

I have usually met your arguements and the arguements of other "State caps" 
with the plague on both your houses arguement. Which is the classical 
Schactmanite position on this question. But your little group no longer fits 
in the above when you quite clearly now throw yourself into the arms of the 
"western bougeois democracies" (the latest example being Australia!) a 
greedy little imperialist state with very much blood on its hands. Not only 
in Vietnam, but at present Bougainville, 
as well as and appetite to get a piece of the action in Indonesia and 
perhaps China when the day of counter-revolutionary overthrow of the 
Stalinist regime their is opn the order of the day. One of your co-thinkers 
even paints a rosy picture of "how wonderful" children have it in Australia 
compared to the former Soviet Union. While at the same time the Australian 
welfare state which is a product of the cold war is being dismantled (just 
like in Sweden) before his very fucking eyes! And not only that the 
Australian "democratic" bougeoisie that our lefts are praising in Australia 
is a strike breaking anti-union government and even the Stalinists i know in 
Australia would never go as far as our ultra lefts on this list do!

And the bottom line is that any of the gains that Australia might have 
gotten depended on the fact that these horrible degenerated and deformed 
workers states existed!  The "welfare" state came to be with the Social 
Democracy, with the implicit good wishes of the "democratic bougeoisie" in 
order to gain time to turn the tide.

> BM, Yours is not a programme for mass organization in
> struggle for workers liberty, nowhere do you ever 
>expound on any kind of politica/educational work for
> communists at the base of the working class in
>the day to day struggles.  To you workers class-
>consciousness and essence of organization 
>infused by the power of the class itself  at the
>point of production and thru revolutionary party
>work with the class in general is all "ultra-left"
>or "going into the desert' etc. ad nauseum.

Oh bullshit Neil. All of the vanguard parties train their people or at least 
try to. Naturally this includes workers. But the point is winning the most 
militant elements to the vanguard party and not building a party of the 
whole class. And the above is leraning towards this Menshevik idea. It goes 
stick in staff with ultra left romantism!
But even Adolfo and the Maoists are into this Prolo shit to the extreme!
>
> Why you trots have  have all the schemes and shortcuts
>now don't you.
>Now lets see,  first your brilliant "Transitional Program"
>Surely the "WORD" from above, never mind it came out in ---1938!
>Now lets get the rrrrrevolutionary  mantras ready Bob!
> Trotskyists all Shout and stomp  together "Bosses
>open your books, now ,we want to see your profits"
>Bosses to trots:"But which set of books do you 
>want comrades trotskyists, we have 3 or 4 different sets"
>Wow that will really help solve your "crisis of leadership"!
>Why you will be 2 decibels to the left of the CPUSA!
>Rrrrrrrolutionary!

Very funny coming from a group who has put a halo around the Bordigists of 
the 20ties! And they probably were far more serious then this crowd that you 
belong to Neil. In fact I am beginning to re access what I thought about you 
"wanting to make a revolution" after the latest antics of bowing to 
imperialist bougeois democracy these last days. Because it puts you to the 
right of the America CP and makes them look like centrists!
>
>
>What about your brilliant tactics for  entering  bosses parliaments!
>Now lets see, if we look at trot theory and practice the scenario 
>goes like this...... "we trots don't have any support now"
>So this means well.......... 
>1) We trots "critically' support the Lambertists on the first round 
>2) We support the stalinists on the 2nd round ! 
>3) Then we really get down building a militant struggle
>by.........supporting the SP (Mitterand) on the 3rd round.
>'Of course WE trots  know that all these groups are 
>counterrevolutionary and careerists but we want 
>the workers to support them anyway, that way they
>get materialist understanding because when  these 
>parties in power openly attack the workers will see that
>it is really a trotskyist "crisis of leadership' problem. 
>And why?' Because we trots gave all-out "critical" support
>to the misleaders and denounced the real communists 
>as "ultra -left"!

Sure Neil! What is your line although the above line is not Trotskyist but 
more like the Mandelites it is better then yours who abstain from giving any 
kind od critical support at all in elections. And when the critical support 
does come from the mouths of our ultra-leftists it is in the form of support 
to the western imperialist bougeoisie! How quaint Neil. I am so angry that I 
could almost not even defend you any more on the LP list from the reformists! 
>
>Wow BM , thats a programme , a real programme of trotskyist 
>leadership --in practice! Gee, no wonder the trots have been
>so successful in their work. They are so brilliant!
>Workers will never have to think and act  for themselves,
>the brilliant trots do all the work and the workers follow
>the leaders, how original!
>Bourgeois think tanks will never think of that!

Geez! Neil is accusing me Malecki of being a "think tank". Well there is a 
first time for everything. But you are right about Trotsky he was really 
brillant and in a class all by himself along with a few others like Lenin, 
Marx and Engels..

Bob Malecki

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