File spoon-archives/marxism-general.archive/marxism-general_1997/97-02-20.225, message 24


Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 01:21:57 +0100 (MET)
From: rolf.martens-AT-mailbox.swipnet.se (Rolf Martens)
Subject: Re: M-G: Re: M-I: Democratic Congo


Dave wrote, on 18.02, the below.

See my comment on Karl's similar posting, same subject line.

Down with Mobutu!
Down with bullshit talk!
Support the AFDL in Zaire!

Rolf M.


>> From:          "Karl Carlile" <joseph-AT-indigo.ie>
>> To:            marxism-international-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
>> Date:          Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:04:14 +0000
>> Subject:       Re: M-I: Democratic Congo
>> Cc:            marxism-general-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
>> Priority:      normal
>> Reply-to:      marxism-international-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
>
>> A KARL CARLILE MESSAGE
>> 
>> 
>> KARL: Hi Dave!
>> 
>> DAVE: But the fact is that these struggles can go nowhere except into the
>> arms of one or other imperialism, or alternatively, break with
>> imperialism by means of transforming a national democratic struggle
>> in to a socialist revolution.
>> 
>> KARL: The above is the kind of rubbish that is constantly being 
>> presented by may trotskyist sects about the world Dave.
>> 
>> There is no possibility of struggle in central Africa being able to 
>> break with imperialism to transform what you call "the national 
>> democratic struggle into a socialist revolution". Both objective and 
>> subjective conditions are such that this is impossible. For one, the 
>> economic character of this area is so backward that there is absent any 
>> objective basis for socialism being established there. Inter-connected 
>> with this is the fact that this region of Africa is so 
>> under-industrialised that there is little of what one would call a 
>> modern industrial working class especially in countries like Burundi and 
>> Rwanda. 
>> 
>> Apart from this it is ironic to hear a so called trotskyist use a stalinist 
>> argument, that socialism in one country is possible, to criticise 
>> stalinism. However the irony is merely ostensible since stalinism and 
>> trotskyism are merely modifications of (statist) leninism which is a 
>> counter-revolutionary politics.
>> 
>Two points. First, if you read the post attached from Workers Voice 
>you would understand that when Trotskyists talk of socialist 
>revolution they DO NOT MEAN SOCIALISM IN ONE COUNTRY.
>Second,  this does not mean that a socialist revolution cannot 
>happen in a backward country, but that revolution must be 
>internationalised in order to build socialism.  You no doubt would have 
>been arguing against a socialist revolution in Russia in 1917 on the grounds 
>that the "objective and subjective conditions" were not present. 
>It is your position which apologises for Stalin. While you many reject 
>socialism in one country, you also reject socialist revolution in one 
>country. This was the menshevik/Stalinist excuse for promoting the 
>national/democratic stage against the Leninist/Trotskyist permanent 
>revolution. 
>Dave.
>
>
>
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>
>



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