Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:18:38 +0100 (MET)
Subject: M-G: Re: Detroit strike death


#2  7:20am Feb. 20 (the time date stuff is a test)

Bill asks;

>From: Bill Briggs <billbb-AT-crl.com>
>
>
>correct me if I am wrong,
>but isn't this message advocating violent overthrow of our gov't?
>perhaps I am missing something.

Well Bill,
I read Neil's letter twice and unfortunately could not find one word about 
him advocating the violent overthrow of "our" government. Shame on you Neil!

Naturally Neil's letter is salted with a lot of ultra left garbage on the 
tactical questions facing the working class like ignoring the neccessity of 
using the parliment as a forum for revolutionary politics and also the usual 
dig at the trade unions which only show the ultra left childness of Neil on 
the tactical question.

But then again I defend Neil against you because you are out here doing some 
sort of witchhunting operation against Neil on this stuff. Ultimately it 
looks like a purge is coming on the LP list of anybody to the left of the LP 
tops who want to tie the workers to the coat strings of the Democratic 
party. To bad! 

What are you people so afraid of? Neil doesn,t bite! Nor does Malecki or 
Cockroach.
And Paul Z certainly is not such a dangerous guy. And others who are 
critical of the right wing of the LP.
 
People on this list are grown up and can decide for themselves what to think 
and not to think and also they can push the delete button. 

Now to your question about "violent overthrow of our government". "Our" 
government is one of the most violent governments in the world! Responsible 
for the deaths of millions in Vietnam so that companies like Dow Chemical 
could get rich by producing such wonderful things like Napalm and Agent 
Orange. And how about Iraq where "our" government went in and tried to bomb 
the Iraqies back to the stone age. Naturally it was mostly civilians who got 
the shitty end of the stick. And it had hardly anything to do with Sadam but 
the question of oil. If Sadam had occupied Kwait as a contry raisin spinach 
"our" government would not have said peep. In fact "our" government support 
the Sadam Husseins of the world. For example Pinochet in Chile who they 
backed to the hilt! Or the various puppet regimes in South Vietnam (read 
McNamara's book)..So your statement is appalling when you accuse Neil of 
avocating violent overthrow of "our" government..

In fact Socialist and Communists do not like violence. Killing is not a nice 
thing. But we also realize that the people in power certainly will not give 
it up without a fight and in fact are prepared to kill millions to defend 
and expand their own interests. The latest airline strike is a good example 
of how "our" government uses the state to attack the pilots right to strike. 
On every picket line the question of violence between the bosses and the 
workers comes up. So we should not have any illusions about the peaceful 
intentions of the bosses in smashing strikes or starting wars to turn a 
buck. Violence probably will be neccessary to remove those in power who live 
off the sweat of poor and working class people. Naturally one would love to 
keep violence to a minimum. But history has proven that the rich and 
powerful time and again are prepared to drown poor and working class people 
in their own blood in order to defend their intersests. From Vietnam to Irak 
to the detroit paper stike the methods used by our enemies are appalling.

Thus we must be prepared not only to defend ourselfs against these creeps 
but when the time comes to go to the offensive and disarm those who for 
decades have used the skulles of poor and working class people to build 
their pyramids.

Sorry if this appalling news upsets some of our more touchy persons on the 
LP list.
Then again if Rodney King was on this list I am quite sure he would 
understand some of this stuff..

Once again I get this strong feeling of a PURGE coming on.

 Bob Malecki

>> From: neil <74742.1651-AT-CompuServe.COM>
>> 
>> dear friends,
>> 
>> Yes the working class needs its own political party
>> but it is a charade to promote that any bonifide workers
>> party  can exist that is not explicitly anti-capitalist 
>> in programme , tactics and strategy.
>> 
>> Also Chris Driscoll makes a fatal mistake  saying that in todays fight
>> backs "....the real fight has to be a political one,  not an
>> economic one. And it will be fought in the Congress 
>> and legislatures or not at all".
>> 
>> One of the greatest defeats on workers consciousness 
>> is the bosses & business unionists separation  of politics (esp.
>> socialist politics -NOT Democrats politics)) and economics. 
>> The economic struggles are the springboard but  to win victories
>>  and spread to other sectors of the class, they must be joined with 
>> working class politics of and for  the class struggle.
>> This combined experience of workers struggling   and debating
>> together  while fighting against capitalists-and the state helps quicker 
mature
>> a significant sector of workers to dump out  and thrash capitalist
>> politics and affifiate with and work actively   in a bonifide labor/socialist
>> party.
>> 
>> Also the workers party will not be a parliamentary party
>> in this period but instead would help educate and organize workers
>> to eventually take on the state & also take,  hold and operate
>> the industries that  our labor and that of previous generations
>>  produced in the first place.
>> 
>> "Shortcuts" such as trying to be with  Democrats and Labor 
>> simultaneously are just more opportunist  Humpty Dumpty straddling
>> on capitals politcal wall and we know what the end  result of that tale 
>> always is..
>> 
>> Neil
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>Bill Briggs  Nat. Assoc. of Letter Carriers #214  billbb-AT-crl.com
>Empire Law School; 2E ;  Santa Rosa, Ca.
>"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas.  If your ideas are any
> good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats." - Howard Aiken
>
>
>





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