Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:39:43 +0000
Subject: Re: M-G: Aldofo, Detcom and Joe Stalin!


> Date:          Thu, 6 Mar 1997 14:45:03 -0500 (EST)
> From:          Siddharth Chatterjee <siddhart-AT-mailbox.syr.edu>
> To:            marxism-general-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
> Subject:       M-G: Aldofo, Detcom and Joe Stalin!
> Reply-to:      marxism-general-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU

> Siddharth reduces fundamental arguments to matters of spelling, 
generalised insults to Trotskyists, wanking on about his grandmother 
and mud, and muddling up menshevik stage theory of which he is a hack 
advocate, and growing up.  Well grow up Siddarth, your efforts to 
reduce these questions to trivia are resisted by history itself. 

None of the Trotskyists on this list are in any conspiracy, or acting 
as inferiors or superiors. That is you stalinist mind caste slipping  
into neutral.  There have been several exchanges on these lists 
about the Stalinist betrayals of the Chinese CP in 1927. Go back and 
read those and come up with your defence of Chiang Kai-shek as an 
honourary member of the Comintern.

As for Jerry `inciting' Olaechea to come up with death threats, what 
a pathetic joke. Where have you been during the  heated exchanges on 
Peru, or for that matter Olaechea's death threats to others on these
lists?  While Olaechea and all his apologists try to minimise these 
threats, Trotskyists are aware that Stalinists/Maoists  have actually 
carried these threats out against Trotskyists in the past as part of their 
counter-revolutionary deals with the bourgeoisie to enforce spheres 
of influence to defend "socialism in one country". 

Finally,  the menshevik method which you, Godena, Olaechea and many 
others share or defend on these lists, has already brought about the 
single most counter-revolutionary overturn in history, the collapse 
of the degenerate workers states and the restoration of capitalism in 
the former SU and Eastern Europe, and is now being crowned by the 
restoration of capitalism in the East.  

While it is necessary to point out these realities to you, in an 
attempt to convince you that you are wrong, it is more than likely 
that you will remain dogmatically hidebound to your 
menshevik role in history, and end up where you belong in the 
dust-bin of history, after the victorious working class has trampled 
over you and your fellow bureaucratic bootlickers. 

Dave. 

> On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, Robert Malecki wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> > 
> > 
> > Well Aldolfo, the Trotskyists have been around since the October Revolution 
> > in the former Soviet Union. And in fact we watched good old Mao betray the 
> > Shang Hai Proletariat already in the 1920ties. And the clone version of the 
> > Maoists that the PCP represents the Trotskyists will also watch and see them 
> > come and see them go as they march down new roads of betrayal of poor and 
> > working class people represented in their rotten and completely bankrupt 
> > Stalinist political line!
> 
> Malecki, my grandmother once said not to deal with people with mud
> since one is likely to get splattered. But this is ludicrous.
> First of all it is Shanghai not "Shang Hai". Could you explain to us
> citing with historical facts how, as you say, "good old Mao betray the
> Shang Hai proletariat." Please don't run to your superiors like Rodwell
> and Bedggood for this.
> 
> > 
> > Aldofo does not have any idea which forces are at work in Peru or 
> > Internationally. And in fact his political orientation is based on decades 
> > of treacherous Stalinist politics along the lines of the stage theroy of 
> > revolution, the popular front, peasant gurellia warfare, and for Aldolfo 
> > personally (like old Joe Stalin himself) threatening to shoot your political 
> > opponents in the workers movement, the third period "Social Facsist" line 
> > which led the German Proletariat to disaster and was the final nail in the 
> > coffin of the Third International and naturally a fairly good portion of 
> > Latin American "macho" male chavinism!
> 
> So you do not believe in stages. So were you BORN as a Trotskyist mouthing
> all this garbage or did you gradually evolve to your current political
> ideology? Besides this "death threat" business that you and your
> compatriots (including M-I moderator Zeynep, whom I have christened as
> our "Wise Woman from the East") are constantly bringing up is mightily
> overblown. This episode evolved from the lines excerpted below from the
> post by the crooked Levy (who has recently also joined M-G) who,
> in a backhanded manner, actually suggested this
> _______________________________________________________________________
> 
> From glevy-AT-pratt.edu Mon Mar  3 10:02:05 1997
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:13:32 -0500 (EST)
> From: Gerald Levy <glevy-AT-pratt.edu>
> Reply-To: marxism-international-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
> To: marxism-international-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
> Cc: marxism-international-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
> Subject: M-I: Re: List lobotomizing
> 
> <Snip>
> 
> 
> Coming from a defender of Stalin, this is interesting. If *I* individually
> am a disease, how do you plan to eradicate the disease? With a bullet?
> With a Gulag? With a "show trial"?  Or -- the most likely scenario -- with
> distortions, evasions, and character asasination?
> 
> Jerry
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Read the lines above which show clearly Levy's red-baiting. It was
> in responese to this, that Adolfo wrote a sharp reply which was misinter-
> preted as a " death threat" - and this has been continuously bandied
> about ever since. One can remember your indignation and fulminations
> a few months ago when Louis Proyect threatened to spread to many computer
> lists about the lumpen activites in your past life. And you accused
> Proyect of being a songbird to the ruling class. So what are you yourself
> doing now when you are accusing someone of making "death threats"
> falsely?
> 
> Look in the mirror and you will see, as Lenin said long ago, a 
> reactionary phrase mongerer.
> 
> S. Chatterjee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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