Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:39:44 -0500 (EST)
From: louisgodena-AT-ids.net (Louis R Godena)
Subject: M-G: Levy's Analysis


At 09:18 AM 3/9/97 -0500, Gerald Levy wrote:

>In my absence, the m-int wars are heating-up. The mere fact this these
>wars are ocurring in my absence says a lot about the position of the
>"moderators" to suspend me for allegedly "destroying the list."

And then,  this treat:

>Here's my take on what is happening:
        
[Follows a rambling,  inchoate resume of prejudice and error in about equal
parts: deleted]

Jerry than proposes to "divide" list members into rigid,  immutable
categories,  in true anal-retentive fashion:

First:
>      a) the die-hard Stalinists...  

Jerry repeats his hackneyed charge that anyone who criticizes Mao,  the PCP,
Stalin,  etc.,  is branded "a provocateur" by this "group".     But all
three have been criticized -- and criticized heartily -- by a number of list
members who,  nevertheless,  recognize the positive contributions to Marxism
of all three.   They have been taken to task by Adolfo and others but have
never been branded with the sweeping designation "provocateur",  "agent",
etc.   On the other hand,  there have appeared from time to time groups and
individuals who sole reason for being on m-i has been to repeat the old
familiar slanders against,  say,  the People's War in Peru (I'm thinking
specifically of the unsavory "Poder Obrero" -- which no one in Peru seems to
have heard of -- and this "htorres" who appears menacingly from time to
time).    They have been handled rather differently.    Jerry,  in my
opinion, is just spewing invective (as he is wont to do) toward people whose
political opinions he does not like.


Second:
>   b) a centrist grouping around Proyect which has entered into a tactical
>      alliance with a) against the remaining members of the list...        

Jerry goes on to repeat his old charges of "death threats" and cop-baiting
which,  according to him,  are tolerated and even encouraged by this group
of centrist/opportunists.    But this "tactical alliance" only exists in
Jerry's inflamed mind,  which regularly produces suicide threats,  paranoic
persecution fantasies,  and an obsession with one or two individuals on m-i.
Nevertheless,  Jerry's charges have been investigated and have been proved
wholly without merit.    [Jerry mentions an "attack" on Paul Zarembka.   I
do not recall any such personal attack.   I quarreled with his use of RC
Tucker on Stalin as well as a couple of minor points,  which he duly
acknowledged.  I believe Louis P criticized an article that Paul had
co-authored,  but I don't think that qualifies as an "attack"].   The truth
is this "tactical alliance" does not exist anywhere outside of Jerry Levy's
thinking.    

Third: 
>   c) a heterogeneous group of independent anti-Stalinists who have
>      increasingly become outraged by the actions of a) and b)...
        
A "heterogeneous group".   As "heterogeneous" is a "good" word (as opposed
to "bad" words like "centrist" and "Stalinist"),  I imagine that this is
where Jerry would locate himself in any TV documentary about
marxism-international.    "Increasingly outraged" has a ring of moral
innocence about it that does not quite square with Jerry's own activities on
Spoons at least since I've been in town.   Again,  he is not very specific,
and it is not clear just who -- other than himself -- he is talking about.
"Outraged" behavior is not confined to any one group on
marxism-international,  however,  which is part of the reason many are here
in the first place.    A fractious,  internecine left hell-bent on its own
destruction,  more interested in validating personal issues than in fighting
for socialism,  will always find a place to carry out its cathartic personal
battles,  regardless of the inhospitability of a  given arena.    

Fourth
>   d) Troyskyist of various types. This group has taken what I view as a
>      principled position against the actions of a) and b), but have
>      sometimes also descended into _ad hominem_ attacks and flame wars
>      with them. A concern of this group is that the desired re-shuffling
>      of m-int proposed by a) and b) would effectively prevent them from
>      stating their political positions... 

Jerry,  at last,  has become specific.    He/they fear that the "desired
re-shuffling" -- something,  again,  that exists only in the minds of a
handful of Jerry look-alikes -- would "effectively" preclude the "stating"
of "political positions". I am glad that he has brought this up.    There is
no "re-shuffling" in the works,  at least not from this end.   I have always
opposed m-i becoming a closed or exclusive list where a homogenous,
pre-ordained set of "opinions" would be tolerated to the exclusion of all
else.   And I am on record as saying so.

Jerry's own record is less clear,  given his experiences with M-2 and the
so-called "Left unity" debacle.    It is not the Stalinists/centrists who
have sought to silence those with whom they disagree: it is,  rather,
Jerry's own "heterogeneous" band of "outraged" "independents" whose
"principled" positions against being denied the opportunity of "stating"
their "positions" have not stopped them from attempting to squelch those
with whom *they* disagree.    The two lists I have already mentioned,  plus
my own brief experience with a marxism chat list -- lorded over by this same
group of "heterogenous" and "principled" "independents" -- is a clear
confirmation of this.  

Add hypocrisy to the list of Jerry Levy's sins.

No matter.   Jerry continues:

>The "moderators" seem to be deeply divided about what to do...

No,  as a matter of fact,  the moderators -- and this moderator in
particular -- seem united on maintaining an open list where issues of
concern to progressives everywhere can be discussed in a free and
facilitative manner.    I have already pointed out my own errors as regards
Adolfo -- with attendant apologies -- in another post.   I won't repeat that
painful experience here.    No one is above making mistakes.   And there is
no psychic or material benefits to be had from being a moderator on *any* of
the Spoons list,  unless you count receiving all types of personal abuse (I
received one imaginative post anonymously the other night accusing me of
having sex with horses!) and witnessing the depreciation of personal
friendships as a "benefit".    Nevertheless, the list will go forward,
hopefully improved and ready for the next round of interesting and
provocative threads.       

>Where will this all end? I know not. But, whatever happens, they will not
>be able to blame me since the shit has been hitting the fan only after my
>suspension.

No,  Jerry,  no one is "blaming" you for anything.    I have already taken
responsibility for the state of the list.   Rest assured.

Do you know what I think of some of you,  when I get off from night shift
and come home to this shit?   I think of you as some guys sitting on a
toilet somewhere in an all-night truck stop,  a magazine spread messily
across your laps,  a huge "Support Mental Health or I'll Kill You" button on
your open jackets,  thinking up ways to painfully vindicate wasted,
unfulfilled lives.    It is thoughts like these --  as well as the demented
sense of comraderie I feel for many of you --  that helps me shoulder on.

The suspensions are over.   

Have at it.

Louis Godena



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