From: dr.bedggood-AT-auckland.ac.nz Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 14:13:03 +0000 Subject: M-G: Re: M-I: Betrayals? > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:15:19 -0500 (EST) > From: Louis N Proyect <lnp3-AT-columbia.edu> > To: marx-int <marxism-international-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU> > Cc: Scott McClemee <mclemee-AT-igc.apc.org> > Subject: M-I: Betrayals? > Reply-to: marxism-international-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU OK Proyect why dont we forget that Russia ever happened, that it no longer exists with the legacy of a 1917 and 1933 and 1989 locked into its bowels. Why dont we just sit around in a library surrounded by NLR, MR, et al all of which date their founding fathers back to the evolutionary marxism of the second international [what Alan Freeman calls "the psychopathology of Walrasian Marxism"] while Albania blows up out of earshot. I mean the hallowed editors of MR doctored marxism in the 1940's with Sweezy's Keynesian theory of `surplus'. Keynes was a 20th century maverick marginalist. NLR promotes the mangled Western Marxism of British neo-ricardianism and centrist trotskyism. I can't speak of Solidarity since Im not familiar with its contents. But Meiksins Wood, your own Justin Schwartz and others reputed to belong, are like you all running away from drawing a marxist balance sheet of the former SU. If you want a list where you can grovel after the latest academic marxists fashions what's stopping you? Your not a moderator of this list, do what you like. Stop whinging, ACT. Just don't call it Leninlist two. Call it Louislist.ego Dave For Permanent Revolution (and that means you). Proyect wrote: > On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Paul Zarembka wrote: > > > But mistakes did become eventual betrayals: If you wish more back-up on > > the degeneration and the 4th CI congress about Versailles, the Ruhr > > occupation by French imperialism and the "nationalist' deviations of > > western CP parties, please read (re-read??) "A History of Soviet Russia' > > by EH Carr, Vols 1 & 2, Bolshevik Revolution 1917-23 & The Interregnum > > 1923-24, Mc Millan Press. 1950, 1954. > > > > I'll welcome any reactions. Paul Z. > > > > Louis: Here is my reaction. You are driving this mailing list into the > ground by going over the same old Lenin-Stalin-Trotsky questions. I just > got mail from Scott McLemee stating that there was "too much aggression" > on m-i and that it was starting to look too much like m-1. There goes the > reporter on CLR James and black nationalism, and there goes the > cyberseminar. It also very likely spells the beginning of the long > degrading descent of m-i. > > We had a split last year between people whose hatred of Stalin ran so deep > that they couldn't abide being on a mailing list with such people. Thus > m-2 was formed. M-1 was the next go go, dragged down to the bottom of the > ocean by spam from Sweden. > > M-I was formed with an unclear focus. We should have insisted that sterile > rehashing of the Stalin-Lenin-Trotsky question led to nothing but flame > wars. I was right. Part of the problem is that the original concept of m-i > was somewhat mechanical. We would attract more international subscribers > because they had fewer messages to download. This was not a basis to form > a mailing list on. Of course we were against people posting 25 times a > day, but didn't articulate what the list was for except global > communication. > > I thought and still think that the Lenin-Stalin-Trotsky question can be > discussed but not by people who have a vested interest in the subject. In > other words people who are building parties that trace their pedigree from > their current guru to Stalin (or Trotsky) back to Lenin, and then back to > Marx and Engels. The result is plain for all to see. Flame wars. > > I am kicking around the idea of forming a new Spoons Marxism list with the > sort of political focus a number of us share. This list roughly speaking > would identify with the current represented by the Monthly Review, > Socialist Register, Socialismus, Capitalism, Socialism and Nature. > Stalinophobia would be prohibited, so would Trotsky-phobia. As a matter of > fucking fact, I am getting to the point where I would like to bar anybody > the minute who drags these dead Russians one more time out of their grave. > > At any rate, I have been corresponding with lots of people on this list > over the last two years or so and we seem to know what we want. We want > Marxist analysis of current events. We want to work towards a Marxism > without dogma. We want to relate to each other in a thinking, respectful > and comradely manner. > > But these fucking "Russian" questions are like an anchor dragging us down. > Justin Schwartz's group Solidarity includes in its founding document a > call to put this question into the background. This makes excellent sense. > Some day when we are wiser and better socialists, we will be able to > discuss these things. In the meantime, it is draining all the energy out > of this mailing list and forcing good people to split. > > > Louis Proyect > (www.columbia.edu/~lnp3) > > > > --- from list marxism-international-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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