Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:58:00 -0400
To: Yoshie Furuhashi <Furuhashi.1-AT-osu.edu>
From: malecki-AT-algonet.se (Robert Malecki)
Subject: M-G: Reply to Joshie on M-Fem list...
Cc: marxism-general-AT-jefferson.village.virginia.edu,


>Hi Bob:
>
>I thought Hugh or Dave might forward this to you, but apparently nobody
>did. I should have CCed it to you when I wrote it. Please read it and
>consider doing what I suggested.
>
>Yoshie
>
>Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:36:34 -0500
>From: Yoshie Furuhashi <Furuhashi.1-AT-osu.edu>
>Subject: M-FEM: An Appeal to Reason
>Sender: owner-marxism-feminism-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
>To: marxism-feminism-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
>Reply-to: marxism-feminism-AT-jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
>Precedence: bulk
>X-Authentication-warning: jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU: domo set sender to
> owner-marxism-feminism-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu using -f
>
>To fellow lovers of net liberties:
>
>May I suggest that we excercise SELF-DISCIPLINE? Those of us who hate to
>have discipline imposed externally must demonstrate our capacity for
>reasoned discourse.
>
>May I further propose that name-calling not be substituted for a
>well-thought-out critique?
>
>Bob wrote on M-G (forwarded by Dave B.)
>>The "feminist ball busting" was just and excuse if that had not come Carrol
>>would certainly have found another. In fact I will not apoligize for using
>>the "feminist ball busting" term because I meant it! It was directed at a
>>women who was painting up Freud as a defender of child rapist and sexual
>>abuse and political coward who sucked up to rich people. That is what I call
>>feminist ball bustbusting and name calling without any political context.
>>And I certainly would never dream of using her terminology to get her
>>thrown >off a list. But certainly will oppose her politically.
>
>There is nothing wrong with arguing against those who criticize Freud for
>suppressing evidence of sexual abuse and for proposing a seduction theory
>instead. However, calling the female critics of Freud "feminist
>balllbusters" cannot be thought of as an instance of legitimate debate. It
>is nothing but sexist name-calling. If Bob desires to come back to the
>list, I say that an apology is in order. His refusal to consider apology or
>self-critique, in my opinion, constitutes his lack of regard for the list
>members.
>
>It is also legitimate to protest against making a fetish of theory and
>cultured language, especially if they are used to exclude those who desire
>to spend time and energy on discussions of everyday political activities
>instead on academic discussions not accessible to many. But this point can
>be made in one short paragraph; no need to waste 20k. Further, it is no
>excuse for lapsing into sexist language.
>
>Lastly, I would like both this list and Marxism to grow and become popular.
>I would like to see this list and Marxism attracting more and more members
>with fresh ideas. Do you also have the same hope for this list and Marxism?
>If so, would you evaluate what you write on your own and see if it is
>conducive to the growth of the list and Marxism?
>
>Yoshie
>
Hi Joshie,

Sending this reply to you and  M-G and naturally M-I so the Stalinist 
moderater Carrol recieves a copy.. Would not want him to think that 
Trotskyists do things in secret behinfd the scenes like the Stalinists. 
Unfortunately not to M-F because the Stalinist moderater Carrol has banned 
me and now as i understand it others like Hugh and Dave.

Hope this gets to the M-F list anyhow..

We have a big problem here. The problem to me is seeing through the smoke to 
get at the fire..In the first place I try to draw a class line rather then a 
sex line. Thus 
despite all the rhetoric and style one has to see not only what people are 
saying,but what they do and what there fighting for.

For example today in Sweden we have and enormous attack on the *real* gains 
that women made during the post war economic boom. Much of this stuff, including
the "feminist" trend was payed for in the blood of millions upon millions of 
poor and working class people. 

Those who are the most polite and would never utter a phrase which could be 
considered "sexist" by some are in the foreground in driving through 
"reforms" which are and attempt to erase many of the gains by women.

jobs are being erased leading to mass unemployment

child and health care on its way down

abortion laws under attack

a gigantic attack on sexuality with the aids stuff.

pensions old age and widow under attack.

collective welfare state being dismantled and privatised.

not to mention the rise in fascist provacations directed against "foreign" 
women.

Many of the above things are being driven through by a parliment and 
political parties that is not only half women but Social Democratic majority 
in a coalition with the bougeis Center Party, of the "new" version that is 
responsible for these disasterous anti-women and anti-worker policies..Not 
to mention that the courts are
in fact defending the growing rascist right wing atmosphere with rulings 
almost every other day which strengthens this philth and their campaigns.

I am not only a communist/Internationalist of the "Trotskyist" model but 
also organised in the biggest trade union in Scandinavia called the 
"Communal Workers Union" which organises the tens and hundreds of thousands 
of mostly women who through the years held up the so called public sector of 
health care,child care,
old age care, firemen,garbagemen, park workers, and quite a few others..

This is real. This is not intellectual jerk off time on internet.This is 
real oppression of women! Everyday I meet women from my union and i told 
them about the great fight on M-F and the hair raising history that seems to 
upset the present human material on the list enough that they are prepared 
to swat Trotskyist "feminist ballbusting"
Mesquitos and swallow Stalinists camel bureaucratic manuvres in order to gag 
the debate. One of these women's reactions was a classic. She opened her 
locker door where she had a very large picture of a naked man and she said. 
"Boy would I like to break his balls!"

Then we have the M-F list which at present has been taken over by a 
Stalinist moderater who has a history of hating Trotskyists, who uses 
slanders like "provacateur" and has done everything in his power to gag, 
expel and remove Trotskyists from Jefferson Village. Then we have a list 
which is just getting off the ground and with the title M-F has attracted 
hardly any women who like my trade union sisters have the social power to 
really change things YET! who appear to see Malecki as the enemy and Carrol 
their pal by silently accepting this purge. 

The latest round of expelling that horrible Malecki for the "feminist 
ballbreaker" phrase came on top of Carrol's calling me a "provacateur" which 
appears to be perfectly acceptable on M-F whereas "Feminist ballbuster" is a 
horrid feminist no no..

So one has to realize that Stalinists who see "Trotskyists" as provacateurs 
will find any excuse or rule in order to gag and expel them. This has been 
the organisational ABC's of finding organisational solutions to the problems 
that the Stalinists have in answering to Trotskyist politics.

Now Jefferson Village and M-F must decide just what kind of list and which 
women and men are going to be part of the discussions. Is it a little click 
of Stalinist Internet bureaucrats at Jefferson Village that will determine 
the future of the lists
with all kinds of organisational manuvres and special rules. 

Or are we going to accept and open the doors of these lists to poor and 
working class women who might not be so polished in the formal values and 
niceties of the present crowd who dominate here or are we going to continue 
along the path of letting a priviledged group of "leftists" keep this turf 
has their private little park.

This is what I thing the real bottom line is. Naturally everyone has to take 
responsibility for what they write and how it will be taken. And in and open 
and honest debate all must judge there words carefully including Malecki if 
he or she is smart. 

However the only basic rule on M-F or any other list is and open and free 
discussion for all who have the right to use the delete button. No platform 
for fascists. No bureaucratic manovres by moderaters to silence their 
political opponents. No cop/agent baiting without proof.

I am willing to come back to M-F anytime they open the door. But 
unfortunately the Stalinists have dreamed up some special rules and thrown 
me out and barricaded the door. I have committed NO CRIME. And naturally I 
must take the consequences of my sometime crude language. But until the 
bureaucartic bans are lifted and the special rules instigated by the 
Stalinist moderater are removed then it is impossible to contribute the best 
way one can to the real struggle and discussion facing women today. 
Naturally until then I will have to find other means to take part in this 
struggle. 

By the way it appears that both Dave and Hugh have now been removed from M-F.
What was there horrible crime according to Malgosia and Carrol the Stalinist 
bobsy twins with button power! While they are figuring out there next 
bureaucratic move I am going to a meeting which will discuss the "Kalmar 
model". It is a scheme to re-employ women in the public sector they were 
once fired from but employment means accepting to work at the same job for 
your un-employment check! 

A very slick operation which the Social Democrats in the unions are using to 
pull the eyes over women about it better to be out their in a job for 
unemployment pay then being isolated at home. My line I think will be NEVER 
in your fucking live! Our work is a job not fucking charity and your 
complete inability to really fight in the interests of working class women. 
We want our real jobs back!The whole scheme is shaped for your loyality with 
the "new" Social Democracy and there dismantling of the welfare states. I 
will probably use the above exact wording but in Swedish. I wonder how many 
feminists who will be appalled by my language and style. My guess it won't 
be to many. Maybe some of the Social Democratic bureaucrats will try to use 
this to dump on Malecki. But being alone here causes problems. If we had and 
eloquent Trotskyist we could use the carrot and the stick method. Malecki 
goes in and screams and makes a lot of noise raising some feelings and 
another comrade taking the softer approach. Thus we could cover a lot of 
territory at this meeting as many others..

Oops I'm almost up in a couple of hundred kb again. Think if i was one of 
those clever people that get it all in to one paragraph! Oh well--that is 
fucking life now isn't it? Besides why bore the list with *real* class 
struggle on a day to day basis when
Jefferson Village is being sucked deeper and deeper into the Stalinist 
school of organisational manovres against Communist working class militants..

Warm Regards
Bob Malecki









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