File spoon-archives/marxism-general.archive/marxism-general_1997/marxism-general.9707, message 152


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:19:11 -0400
From: malecki-AT-algonet.se (Robert Malecki)
Subject: M-G: Private Email and sniveling hypocrites and "enforcers"!


Godena writes among other things;

  I then wrote, privately, that in my view, Malecki, Brown, Bedggood
>-- the lot of them -- were uniquely unfit to wash themselves in the urine of
>the Vietnamese people.  I wrote, thus, not because I was afraid of letting
>people know what I think -- only the most obstinately stupid reader could
>fail to appreciate that -- but rather to illustrate a point I was making in
>a private context.  You, of all people, should appreciate the difference.   
>
>As for private e-mail making its appearance on m-i, I have two, or, rather,
>three criteria: I do not post private mail of a solely personal nature, nor
>do I dishonor requests to that effect.  And I would not forward mail to the
>list that would otherwise compromise the security of the original sender.  
>
>Beyond that, I'm game for anything. 
>
>Louis Godena

I am taking Godena's post as a springboard into what has become a very 
interesting thread. The thread in itself is turning into quite a soap opera!

Anyhow Godena here has a fairly good position on private Email. But what is 
interesting is how just this one individual is acting. It is quite clear 
that our "intellectuals" at least behind the scenes and in their private 
posts have the tendency to sink to the levels of that "horrible Malecki" who 
uses fuck in his polemics and all the rest. So when it comes to table 
manners it is quite clear that our petty bougeois component have one way of 
acting publically and in private find that there petty bougeois fasade 
droops and out comes all the horrible lumpen prolo shit they publically despise.

I knew this for quite a long time. The Perfumo affair being a good example 
of the real morals and table matters of the ruling class. Just like Chris 
B.s post from England about youth today is another good example of petty 
bougeois and bougeois morality. Big public campaigns about how the "mob" 
should act and do with specific age limits while they continue to 
smoke-fuck-do drugs or whatever in private!!

Privacy for them is a "real" interest! They as the petty bougeois 
intellectual crowd here are defending it tooth and nail these days...But in 
fact it is only their "privacy"
in order to control the situation that comes into question here. Don't think 
they have any principles on this stuff like Andy for example.

Now Andy latest on this I see as and honest and legitimate posing of the 
security question. It is relative in the sense that in the future people 
could be set up by falsified Email and documents on the net.

But then the circus starts and all the creeps crawl out of the walls to use 
this issue to implement rules and a form of order in order to defend the 
most incredible and horrid "private" Email that becomes public that was not 
falsified. And now both Zeynep and Jon from vacation are warning the RMC 
people that they will be dumped from the list if they post one more 
"private" mail. This is pure bougeois morality and in the case of Malecki 
the moderaters are once again jumping right into the camp of the 
neo-Stalinist Mensheviks and their "power struggle" and despicable behavior 
and fighting not for the interests of all on the list but this particular 
viscious little click. Who in reality are setting up Malecki with a viscious 
slander of being a cop/agent. This is the issue not "privacy".

Firstly since when is the accusation of somebody on this list being a 
cop/agent in the pay of somebody a private matter? It would be the duty of 
any militant or Communist to bring this information to the list with proof 
if it was true. Agent/provacateurs are dangerous if they are real. Just as 
falsified Email would be dangerous. But no the moderaters defend this stuff 
by allowing Proyect to continue this stuff as long as he does it privately 
which time and again turns up publically!

Instead the moderaters are using the "private" Email stuff to warn and get 
this time the RMC thrown off the list at the behind the screens behest of 
the click! In fact honest moderaters should have warned the RMC for not 
publishing this letter earlier to the list! And they should immediately have 
said to Proyect prove this accusation or apologise! But no they elect to 
make this a principled issue of "private Email".
What diletantes! Peoples lives are at stake here and they are putting 
Proyects viscious "private/public" letter which he admits to be the author 
of time and again on the pedistal..

Once again I say that both John and Zeynep are big pieces of shit. They 
cowardly are hiding behind a "rule" and allow the privat/public slander to 
continue. And are in fact helping Proyect in endangeriung militants who face 
very long prison sentences.
And Zeynep tries to pump out the tears for her Turkish fiends in jail at the 
same time aiding and abbetting Proyect to help the state put people in jail! 
Amazing Zeynep..

Tying to take a materialist and political analisis of what is going on here 
is that the
M-I is taking on the form of a bougeois state! Where the various interests 
see the moderaters as the instrument to control and gain power over this 
state. The state in itself is human material and depending on who gets put 
in their line up with those interests and fight in their interests. It is 
really quite funny this fasade of M-I being some sort of serious 
"democratic" discussion list for "leftists". There is no workers democracy 
going on here now based on a three post a day limit with the right to use 
the delete button. 

It is a real power struggle and manuvering that is going on by those who 
time and again are using organisational manuvres to silence those who 
question the present powers that be.

In the final analisis this latest struggle shows that the present human 
material are putting "privacy" on the pedistal not for any principle! This 
is just a cover in order to allow the present click to continue to paint up 
the opposition as crazy or cop/agents or nuts and when the heat is on to 
cover their tracks by making up rules and enforcing them against the victims 
of these private attacks..

I honestly must say there is more honesty on the block I live in which is a 
make up of workers, there children and older people. On this list are just 
quite a few viscious
backroom wheelers and dealers who put on their powdered wigs when appearing 
publically and save all the juicy stuff to use to stick the knife in the 
backs of their political opponents privately. What cowards, what fakers and 
to think that Zeynep and John think people should believe them after this is 
a real fucking pipedream.

You are not moderaters but active participants on the side of the gang in 
order to defend endangering real peoples lives. I and others are facing long 
prison sentences and you elect to support and back up Proyect with your 
rules of privacy! That is what you are really doing despite all Zeynep's 
handwringing and pleading about Turkey and her emotional outburst about my 
position on the hunger strikers which I still uphold. In reality she wants 
to punch me in the mouth) because i say
Comrades eat! Prepare and struggle! Don't starve to death!

Her line is to tail after events in Turkey and cry at the burials!

By the way I notice you fail to mention that I defended these people against 
the Turkish state while disagreeing with their suicida tactics!

Well those coffins hurt me much more then Zeyneps tears believe me. How many 
good militsants wasted by starving themselves to death. Better to struggle 
and let them put you against the wall singing the International..

Anyhow the latest is the most disgraceful, disgusting new low that this list 
and its moderaters have sunk to.

I defend the RMC and its actions thus far.

The moderaters defend Proyect and his dangerous unproved cop/agent baiting!

The moderaters now have the gaul to today warn the RMC for a "private" letter
which Proyect sent exactly so that he could pull your strings and gag the 
RMC and in the final analisis get them removed from the list..

It is Proyect with the support of the moderaters that are the real criminals 
and in fact allow once again this cop/agent viscious neo-Stalinist Menshevik 
yellow journalist go free...

And in the final analisis it is these people who are destroying workers 
democracy and making this list a real place to discuss. They don't want to 
discuss. They want to be obeyed! And when serious Revolutionary Marxists 
begin to challenge their authority they begin to howl, slander and scream 
while at the same time the moderaters time and again back them up as the 
real "enforcers" (notice i did not use the word COP) of their anti 
democratic bureaucratic manuvres to get any serious opposition either 
silenced through "special rules" or banned from the list.

I defend the RMC this latest two "private mailing" incidents. The first the 
criminal belated publication of Proyects letter on me and the second RMC 
publication of Proyects "This is a strictly private letter" provacation to 
set them up for expulsion. And the moderater "enforcers" have once again 
proved that it is not the victims they defend but the criminals. 

I hope that all serious thinking militants defend these people on this occasion.
Anything else would be ridiculous...And if this continues that we move the 
discussion back to M-G where these kind of manuvres are not allowed. Because 
if this list as I think is becoming a cyber replica of a mini "bougeois" 
state with its enforcers in order to defend one particular clicks interests 
it definitely needs to be smashed!

Warm Regards
Bob Malecki
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