File spoon-archives/marxism-general.archive/marxism-general_1997/marxism-general.9707, message 168


Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:47:54 +0200 (MET DST)
From: rolf.martens-AT-mailbox.swipnet.se (Rolf Martens)
Subject: Re: M-G: Workers are selfish....?


Karl C wrote the below, on 17.07.

No, Karl, what you're saying is basically *not* true.

There do exist *some tendencies* in that direction, in
countries such as Sweden - where I live, and I suppose
Ireland, if anything, is "better" in this respect, that
of people standing up for correct things, I mean - but
on the whole, things are *not* in that way.

Those *tendencies* which there in fact *are* today in
the direction you're talking of are bad enough, though.
And they have an economic and social background, of course.

Briefly I'd like to mention 1) the corrupting influence by the
bourgeoisie - still today - in connection with their handing
out, to not so few people in our countries, certain portions
of those superprofits which they're extracting from the third
world and from Eastern Europe. And 2) the whole matter of the
*reduction of production*, the *killing* of a large part of
industry, that the arch-reactionaries are engaging in today,
and the corrrsponding massive propaganda for retrogression
too - in fact that big thing which I've called 'the "green"
warfare'.

As for a reflection of this on this list, which you also
are saying that you're seeing - well, I don't want to comment
all that deeply on that. OK, things "might" have been better.
One could always imagine that. But what's your point; how
would you improve things, in the first place?

In the second place, this list isn't all that bad either.

Just recently, we've had at least a little of a "Mari=E1tegui"
bloodbath, respectively a "LeninList" bloodbath, precisely
here on this list, havent't we? In my opinion, such things
are very important and wholesome and one of the biggest "raisons
d'=EAtre" of such lists at all - and just now, you're starting
to complain?

Sorry Karl, I think it's good that everybody's saying what's
on their mind, but this posting of yours I find decidedly "cry-
babyish".

If it may comfort you, I had in mind, just a couple of days ago,
sending off something with a similarly "cry-babyish" subject line
but then thought it wouldn't serve much purpose, in the first
place, and wouldn't really be a correct description of things, in
the second place - since (as I know by long experience, I think I
do at least) there are people and sentiments out there that are
*very positive indeed*, only you mostly don't hear from them
because of the static from those whom the bourgeoisie in reality
are favouring and thus are so much more loud-mouthed.

My, after all, deleted "whining-line" was intended to go like
this: "Olaechea is Ola, Jay's in decay, Klaus ist aus"....so?"
(on the difficulty for the adherents of Marx, Lenin and Mao
Zedong today to find supporters and allies, that was supposed
to be about). I thought better of it, though, and reminded
myself of that fact which old Mao Zedong was always going on
about and which *is* a fact today too:

"The enemy is rotting more and more for each day, and for us,
things are just going better and better."

Take a look a little deeper down, Karl, and you'll see that
that's a goddamn fact!

Rolf M.


>Dear subbies:
>
>In one's experience of daily life one finds that people in general
>including working class people are egoistic in how they conduct
>their daily lives. At work and outside of work they tend to be egoti
>stic to the exclusion of others especially if they are not immediate
>members of their family.
>
>Yet we are told to believe that the working is a class and that
>class consciousness either exists or can exist and be developed into
>a revolutionary class consciousness. If this is true then this sho
>uld imply that workers are prepared to face the truth. Yet talk in
>an open and frank way to workers concerning politics, culture and
>individual matters is virtually impossible. If you say what you th
>ink to be the truth no discussion will take place in way that leads
>to self-discovery and further development as an individual.
>
>Workers, as individuals, prefer to live a life of illusion and evade
>facing the truth. Workers and people generally show little
>self-assertiveness. They tend to avoid standing up as individuals to
>op pose "wrongdoings" such as individual cases of vandalism, bullying
>or discrimination. Workers refuse to stand up to such wrong doing
>even when it puts one at little or no risk. It is as if workers ar e
>virtually amoral and apolitical.
>
>In Ireland there has been legislation passed into law that curbs
>civil rights and yet there was hardly a squeak of protest from
>workers in the form of collectivities or as individuals. Indeed, if
>any thing, they supported the encroachment of civil rights. Indeed it
>is unusual to hear the average worker even discussing politics in
>any serious way.
>
>This state of affairs tends to reflect itself on the marxism lists.
>Subscribers, in general, tend to be more concerned with point
>scoring and other egoistic exercises rather than the development of
>d iscussion in the interests of developing the class struggle.
>
>It would seem that in many ways there is some truth to Nietzsche's
>understanding of social reality.
>
>
>Greetings Karl
>
>
>
>                                     
>
>
>
>
>                          Yours etc.,
>                                     Karl  
>
>
>     --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>
>



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