Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:06:53 -0700
Subject: Re: M-G: Reply to Rob on Trotskyism (Was: Insect spray Special)


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

OK Rolf and the rest of the list here are some excerpts from "The Testament of
Lenin". These quotes are taken from the full text as published in a  pamphlet
by Leon Trotsky, "The Suppressed Testament of Lenin" (1946, Pioneer Publishers,
Pioneer Pocket Library #2). I also have this text in Lenin's Collected Works
and in a pamphlet of Lenin's last writings published in Moscow. I frankly chose
to use this pamphlet's version of the text because it was the easiest to grab
in my library and NOT for any political reason of translation choice. After the
selections from that document are two other pieces by Lenin which might help
clarify this question.

from "The Testament of Lenin":

...
    "I have in mind stability as a guarantee against a split in the near
future, and I intend to examine here a series of considerations of a purely
personal character.
    "I think the fundamental factor in the matter of stability -- from this
point of view -- is such members of  the Central Committee as Stalin and
Trotsky. The relation between them constitutes, in my opinion, a big half of
the danger of that split, which might be avoided, and the avoidance of which
might be promoted, in my opinion, by raising the number of members of the
Central Committee to fifty or one hundred.
    "Comrade Stalin, having become General Secretary, has concentrated an
enormous power in his hands; and I am not sure that he always knows how to use
that power with sufficient caution. On the other hand, Comrade trotsky, as was
proved by his struggle against the Central Committee in connection with the
question of the People's Commissariat of Ways and Communications, is
distinguished not only by his exceptional abilities -- personally, he is, to be
sure, the most able man in the present Central Committee -- but also by his too
far-reaching self-confidence and a disposition to be too much attracted by the
purely administrative side of affairs."
...
"... I will only remind you that the October episode of Zinoviev and Kamenev
was not, of course, accidental, but that it ought as little be used against
them personally as the non-Bolshevism of Trotsky."
...
"... Bukharin is not only the most valuable and biggest theoretician of the
party, but also may legitimately be considered the favorite of the whole party;
but his theoretical views can only with the very greatest doubt be regarded as
fully Marxist, for there is something scholastic in him (he never has learned,
and I think never has fully understood, the dialectic.:
...
    "Postscript: Stalin is too rude, and this fault, entirely supportable in
relations among us Communists, becomes in supportable in the office of General
Secretary. Therefore, I propose to the comrades to find a way to remove Stalin
and appoint it to another man who in all respects differs from Stalin only in
superiority -- namely, more patient, more loyal, more polite and more attentive
to comrades, less capricious, etc...."

---

Written at the bottom of a blank piece of paper during the civil war and the
Military Debates:

"Comrades, knowing the harsh character of comrade Trotsky's orders, I am so
convinced, of the correctness, expedience and necessity for the good of our
cause, of orders issued by comrade Trotsky, that i give them my full support.
                V. Ulianov (Lenin)"

---

>From Lenin's speech at the November 1 (14), 1917 meeting of the Central
Committee (stenographer's notes): "As for conciliation [with the Mensheviks and
the Social Revolutionists] I cannot even speak about that seriously. Trotsky
long ago said that unification is impossible. Trotsky understood this and from
that time on there has been no better Bolshevik."


---

Comrades, you might ask why I spent the time typing this when all Rolf and the
others of his ilk will do is declare these are false documents or some such or
come up with ever more advanced apologia for those who deny the revolutionary
and Bolshevik character of Trotsky's work. I offer them in the interests of
historical accuracy. AND so that any who are reading this list without the
prism of a distorted Stalinist, Stalinesque or Maoist reading of history might
have a chance to honestly analyze the period in question.

Gary


Rolf Martens wrote:

> Rob L. wrote the below on 15.09
>
> As you've probably seen, I obviously misquoted (from memory)
> what Lenin wrote about Trotsky in his so-called "testament",
> a certain letter to the party. Siddharth C. corrected me,
> saying that it was Bukharin, not Trotsky, about whom Lenin
> wrote that he'd never understood dialectics. But I do remember
> (I hope, not all that incorrectly) that there was some rather
> sharp criticism against Trotsky too in that letter. And I don't
> remember at all seeing anything like the thing you now say was
> there about that more recent (from 1917 on) "Bolshevik". I've
> asked Sid if he would please post that letter to this list, if
> he has its full text. And I shall try myself if I cannot find
> it somewhere, if Sid doesn't have it.
>
> Apart from that, the flagrant contradictions between Trotskyism,
> on the one hand, and Marxism, on the other, are obvious on a
> number of points. Some time later, I shall go into these questions.
> For now, just take the question of the planned enormous industrial
> sabotage (by the govt.) here in Sweden, against the Barsebäck
> nuclear power plant, which produces 6% of all energy here. On that
> question, where does Trotskyism stand (not just the Malackey)?
> In favour of criminal bourgeois stoneage-ism, isn't that so?
> And where does Marxism stand? As the most consistent defender
> of the very civilization, the consistent defender of the vital
> interests of the workers.
>
> Just one "small" instance!
>
> Rolf M.
>
> >ROLF, AS FAR AS I CAN REMEMBER LENIN SAID THAT TROTSKY HAD MADE ERRORS,
> >BUT THEY WERE NOT INTENTIONAL, AND THAT BY 1917 HE HAD BECOME ONE OF THE
> >BEST BOLSHEVIKS.  TO BUKARIN AND PERHAPS ZINOVIEV IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY,
> >HE COMMENTED ON HOW IN 1917 THEIR ERRORS WERE INTENTIONAL.
> >OH, BY THE WAY, THE CURRENT MILITANT IS A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT, THEY ARE A
> >POOR REPRESENTATION OF MARXISM.  SOCIALIST APPEAL, IS THE CONTINUATION OF
> >THE MILITANT TENDENCY, MILITANT I FIRMLY BELIEVE WAS ONE OF THE BEST
> >ORGANIZATIONS AROUND, IT DEGENERATED - THEY SPLIT, AND THE CURRENT MEMBERS
> >OF SOCIALIST APPEAL WERE KICKED OUT, BUT THEY HAVE KEPT UP THE STRUGGLE!
> >I AGREE, THE CURRENT MILITANT IS BOURGEOIS REVISONISM!
> >
> >ROB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Siddharth C. wrote, on 13.09, the below:
> >>
> >> And thanks for the correction, Sid - if correct, which
> >> I presume, since I  just "quoted" something I *thought*
> >> I remembered, from rather long ago. I do remember there was
> >> rather sharp criticism against Trotsky too - as well as
> >> against Stalin, for instance - in that letter of Lenin's.
> >>
> >> Do you perhaps have the full text of that letter, Sid?
> >>
> >> I'd be grateful if you'd post it to the list!
> >>
> >> Rolf M.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, Rolf Martens wrote:
> >> >
> >> ><snip>
> >> >
> >> >> leading position at least, at all.
> >> >>
> >> >> No. That much I remember. The text of that "will", a certain letter
> >> >> to the party, I think it was, is known. About Trotsky it said in the
> >> >> letter that he "had never understood dialectics" - true, I think.
> >> >> By no means was he "specifically given" such a duty.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Rolf,
> >> >
> >> >Lenin wrote that about Bukharin, not Trotsky. Regards.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >     --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>      --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >     --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
> >
> >
>
>      --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---



Content-Description: Card for Gary Holloway

begin:          vcard
fn:             Gary Holloway
n:              Holloway;Gary
email;internet: freiheit-AT-earthlink.net
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
x-mozilla-html: FALSE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard





     --- from list marxism-general-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---